Hear from moms in all different scenarios doing their absolute best to honor themselves as individuals in a world that would prefer, as mothers, we not. Hear from moms who are trying to figure out what that "something" is after the life altering transition into motherhood. Hear from moms that say "I know I need to do something for myself and this is what it is, but it feels impossible to do it" What is the AND/BOTH that you are juggling with motherhood? Career, hobbies, entrepreneurship, new identity, new activities, new passions and interests?
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What is AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing?
AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing is a kids podcast hosted by Dr. Ashley Blackington, with 132 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80.
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Dr. Ashley Blackington hosts AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing, a kids show with 132 episodes published.
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Episode #132
132. "If I Didn't Have My Business, I Couldn't Have Left," Lana Pummill on Single Motherhood, Cold Pitching & Starting Over
Oct 2, 202653 minS11
Lana Pummill started her business in 2019 charging twelve dollars an hour. In 2021, her marriage ended when the twins were three months old, and that business — scrappy and underpaid as it was — became the thing that made leaving possible. She said it directly: without it, she wouldn’t have had the financial means to get out. She’s been building ever since. From her mom’s house. From the food bank line at six in the morning. Through a hail mary cold email that changed the direction of everything. In this conversation, Ashley and Lana talk about what it looks like to build a business when you’re starting from zero, why financial independence isn’t a luxury for women in hard situations, and what the pivot from survival mode to actual freedom looks like in real time. In This Episode Single mom of four — a twelve-year-old, a ten-year-old, and boy-girl twins — and how that shapes everything Starting a business in 2019 for twelve dollars an hour — and the awkward conversation that follows when you undercharge for a year The marriage ending when the twins were three months old — and why having a business made leaving possible Living with her mom, going to the food bank at six in the morning — what the early years actually looked like The hail mary cold email — how responding to a newsletter got her in front of the right person at exactly the right time Why brutally honest networking lands with the right people — and why that’s the whole point The pivot from social media scheduling to cold pitching to consulting — and why the business keeps finding its own shape AI — the good, the cold, and why treating it like a rough draft is smarter than treating it like a shortcut Why you can’t outsource the human voice and what happens when you try The Water Llama hydration app and what it says about who’s actually designing these things The McDonald’s parking lot breakdown — an hour and fifteen minutes from home with four kids, a hundred degrees, and a car that wouldn’t start What the freedom she built the business for actually looks like now — and why consulting is getting her closer Her long-term goal: building something for moms who are financially stuck and need a way out Why you have to figure out you first before the tools and platforms can help Quotes From This Episode “If I wouldn’t have had my business, I wouldn’t have had the financial means to get out of the marriage that I was in.” — Lana Pummill “I was at a food bank at six in the morning because I couldn’t get groceries.” — Lana Pummill “It all comes down to whether you still believe in it or not. If you enjoy what you’re doing, ’cause I really do love what I’m doing.” — Lana Pummill “Treat it like your rough draft.” — Lana Pummill (on AI) “You have to figure out you first. And then you can go apply the tools and platforms and all that stuff.” — Ashley Blackington Find Lana LinkedIn: Lana Pummill Website: lanapummill.com Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
131. Your Impact Can't Just Be Outpouring, Lisa Avila on Building Something That Sustains You Too
Sep 18, 202653 minS11
Lisa Avila spent fifteen years in the wine industry, left to do migrant Head Start and advocacy work with families the system was failing, quit when COVID made the impossible impossible, and built a business strategy and nonprofit strategy practice on the other side of all of it. She works mostly with women. The question they all arrive with is the same one she had to answer for herself: now what? In this conversation, Ashley and Lisa talk about the nonprofit trap — the idea that wanting to make an impact means you have to be a martyr about it — why women who help people deserve to make real money doing it, what it’s like to be sandwiched between kids and aging parents at the same time, and what the next right step looks like when you’ve spent decades outpouring and finally have some space to ask what you actually want. In This Episode Mom of three boys, fifteen years in the wine industry, migrant Head Start director — how Lisa got here The COVID moment that made her quit — and why her boss didn’t understand until she had kids of her own The nonprofit trap — why women who want to make an impact keep being told it has to be unprofitable Why you can make a lot of money and still help people — and why we need to stop acting like those are opposites The golden handcuff — when the organizations saying “we support women” require them to be nonprofits to qualify What migrant Head Start actually looks like — and what happens to student records when families move across the country The political reality of advocacy in a conservative agricultural town in California Red cards, rights, and what’s changed for immigrant families since COVID The Panini generation — being sandwiched between kids and an eighty-one year old mother, in perimenopause Three boys 17, 19, and 20 — what it’s like when two come home from college for the summer The client going global with her nonprofit — four years from a Facebook group to international impact The client who sat on her cancer journey poems for seven years and finally published them What the “now what” looks like — the question every woman Lisa works with is asking Non-negotiables: a bath every night, coffee, a walk, girlfriends who keep it real The airstream barbecue and dive bar tour — her plan for empty nest life Quotes From This Episode “Why can’t we make a lot of money and still help people? There’s nothing wrong with that. Why do we have to wear our heart on our sleeve and be martyrs?” — Lisa Avila “I’m not putting it out there that I only work with mothers, but it’s just this energy we’re drawn to — this now what.” — Lisa Avila “I was checking boxes for decades. Just outpour, outpour, outpour. And what did it get me?” — Lisa Avila “Your impact can’t just be outpouring. It has to be self-sustaining. Otherwise that’s how everyone flames out.” — Ashley Blackington “I am physically hot and I am pressed for time and patience and all of the things.” — Ashley Blackington (on the Panini generation) Find Lisa LinkedIn: Lisa Avila TikTok: @LisaAvilaCo Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
130. The Only Safety Net That Will Ever Exist Is the One You Build Yourself, with Lindsey Elliott
Sep 4, 202654 minS11
Lindsey Elliott spent seventeen years at a leading outdoor footwear brand — starting junior, ending as Global VP — and two months ago she left to build Product & Presence, her own company focused on brand visibility and public speaking coaching, with a particular soft spot for helping women show up in big rooms without the weight of everything they were never supposed to be carrying in the first place. In this conversation, Ashley and Lindsey, who have been friends since University in Halifax, talk about what it looks like to leave a twenty-year career, why the safety net you build yourself is the only one that’s real, how partnership and parenting look different when there are no predetermined roles, and why making your kid breakfast every morning might be the best metric for success nobody talks about. In This Episode How Ashley and Lindsey met — Lyle House, Halifax, a hockey stick, and Grey’s Anatomy every Thursday Twenty years in the outdoor industry — from retail footwear buyer to Global VP Why Lindsey chose entrepreneurship over the next big corporate role, even when the big roles were available The career coach she dismissed for years who turned out to be right about everything What transition looks like when you have a twelve-year-old watching how you handle it Product & Presence — what it is, who it’s for, and why public speaking is at the center of it Why the only safety net that will ever exist is the one you build yourself Women and financial independence, why self-care needs to include financial acumen Being the primary financial provider in a same-sex partnership and what happens when that changes How the absence of predetermined gender roles changes what partnership and parenting actually look like The woman who couldn’t get out of her own head before a keynote and what Lindsey did about it The backpack of garbage nobody asked for and why it shouldn’t be in the room when you’re on stage The lacrosse kids running summer camps instead of stocking shelves and what that says about what’s coming Making breakfast before getting after it and why that’s the whole point Quotes From This Episode “The only safety net that will ever exist here is the one that I create for myself.” — Lindsey Elliott “Success is not linear. And that’s not bad — it’s just important to acknowledge.” — Lindsey Elliott “If I get to make my son breakfast and put him on the school bus, and then I get to put in a day that’s as long as it needs to be — I’m good with that.” — Lindsey Elliott “There are no predetermined gender roles. So you define whatever that relationship looks like in the capacity that makes sense for you both.” — Lindsey Elliott “You’re not building the airplane while you’re trying to figure out how to fly the thing. Plane’s done. Pass the peanuts.” — Ashley Blackington Find Lindsey Website: productandpresence.com LinkedIn: search Lindsey Elliott Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
129. No More Mediocre: The Mental Load, the Nag Paradox & Why You Can't Win — with Laura Danger
Aug 21, 202658 minS11
Laura Danger got laid off five days into her maternity leave. Then she opened a birthday card that said best mom, best wife — and realized she couldn’t remember the last time anyone asked if she was doing okay as a person. That stack of moments became No More Mediocre, her book about the mental load, the nag paradox, and the care work that holds everything together while remaining completely invisible. In this conversation, Ashley and Laura talk about the Truman Show moment that cracks open the life you thought you wanted, why the nag paradox is a loop you literally cannot win, what sitcom syndrome is doing to households across the country, and how a garden club in Chicago became something much bigger than anyone expected. In This Episode Laura’s Truman Show moment — laid off on maternity leave, a birthday card that only named her roles, and 2020 doing the rest What the mental load actually is — and why the emotional thinking work definition matters Weaponized incompetence — what it is and how it shows up in real relationships The nag paradox — the corrosive loop of directing and executing, and why doing it yourself only makes it worse Sitcom syndrome — how couples comedy on TikTok normalizes dynamics that can be genuinely toxic behind closed doors Why high-achieving women often can’t separate their anger at the system from the person right in front of them — and what to do about it The career rug pull as the new midlife crisis for men — and what that means for conversations about equity at home What the 2026 Equimundo State of the World’s Fathers report found — and why it’s haunting Linchpin exhaustion — why Ashley couldn’t snowboard freely because of what it would cost her family if she got hurt Why believing in equal roles leads to less conflict even when the division of labor isn’t equal Zone defense parenting — and why taking the average over time beats snapshot accounting The garden club that became a care network — free plants, seed libraries, and neighbors who know each other’s names No More Mediocre the book — and why the audiobook is specifically designed to listen to while you garden Quotes From This Episode “I felt bamboozled. I really thought I could change things or just work really hard and this would get better. And it didn’t.” — Laura Danger “I can’t die because I have knowledge that nobody else has. I know the schedule.” — Laura Danger “The nag paradox is that corrosive relationship loop where one person takes direction and the other directs.” — Laura Danger “It’s not just a garden club. It’s a full-blown care network.” — Laura Danger “I am here, I am wearing the name tag, I am doing the thing. But that doesn’t mean it’s my responsibility.” — Ashley Blackington Resources & Links No More Mediocre (book): available everywhere books are sold — audiobook recommended Libro FM (supports local bookstores): libro.fm Instagram: @thatdarnchat Substack: search Laura Danger Equimundo State of the World’s Fathers 2026: equimundo.org Fair Play by Eve Rodsky — mentioned as companion resource Drained by Leah Ruppaner — mentioned in conversation Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
128. Becky Selbie on Mums Who Look Like They’re Coping but Feel Like They’re Failing
Aug 7, 20261 hourS11
Becky Selbie is a London-based psychotherapist who specialises in motherhood and maternal mental health — and she has a gift for taking the frameworks she uses in her therapy room and translating them into language that actually lands in everyday life. In this conversation, Ashley and Becky cover a lot of ground: matrescence and why the word matters so much, the rule book that high-achieving women carry into motherhood that starts working against them the moment they get there, the mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing, the difference between motherhood and mothering, and why the inner critic telling you you’re not good enough isn’t your voice — it’s the noise of a culture that has never held mothers in the regard they deserve. It’s one of those conversations that leaves you seeing yourself differently. In This Episode How Becky came to specialise in maternal mental health — giving birth and thinking “how has nobody prepared me for this?” Matrescence — why the word matters, where it came from, and why it took 50 years to reach mainstream language The moment Becky heard it for the first time and ran downstairs to tell her husband Sharing the concept with her mother — who had her first child in the 1960s and was prescribed tranquilizers for what was actually matrescence Why high-achieving women struggle in motherhood more than others — and the rule book that explains why Mums who look like they’re coping but feel like they’re failing — and what the swan metaphor gets exactly right The “tab open” metaphor — why you never feel fully disconnected from your children even when you’re away from them Not loving every chapter — and why that has nothing to do with how much you love your kids The problem with parenting content on social media — theory without context, and who pays the price Why Becky’s clinical supervisor said “well, she will” when a client was terrified of messing up her kids — and why that was the most freeing thing she’d ever heard Motherhood vs. mothering — the doing versus the being, and why we’re graded on the wrong one The inner critic is the patriarchy — and why turning down its volume is the whole point What fills Becky’s bucket: creativity, building community, and the retreat she’s planning for mums Quotes From This Episode “Not loving motherhood doesn’t mean that you don’t love mothering. Just because you don’t enjoy bits of motherhood, there is no connection to how you feel about your kids.” — Becky Selbie “The inner critic is wrong. The inner critic is the patriarchy — it’s society, it’s all those messages about what motherhood should look like. And it’s nonsense.” — Becky Selbie “Motherhood is the doing. Mothering is the being — the relationship, the love, the knowing them inside out. But we’re graded on the doing.” — Becky Selbie “Even when you’re away, there’s a tab open all the time in your head. It’s just that as they get older, the tab gets smaller.” — Becky Selbie “Don’t compare the back end of your business to the front end of somebody else’s.” — Ashley Blackington Connect with Becky: Instagram: @_motherway_ Website: motherway.co.uk Connect with Ashley: Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/ Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822 Instagram: @mydovetail.app LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/
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