b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck

A podcast for GenX(ish) leaders who are exhausted from the suck and are looking for new, more authentic ways to kick butt.The Because Work Doesn't Have to Suck podcast isn't another boring, stuffy leadership podcast. And it doesn't bring you a gazillion guests who had the guts to "ef" the 9-5, seemingly the only answer to truly being happy in your career.Instead, this podcast is focused on helping you continue to rise in your career, but doing it without compromising everything else - your family, your health, or maybe even who you are.Erin, a former corporate CEO turned Authentic Leadership expert, teams up with her good friend, Nicole, an ivy league grad and professional do-gooder. Nicole lays it all on the line to share her real-time work highs, lows, contemplations, and sometimes barely believable stories. And Erin coaches and cajoles her (really, you) along the way...all in the name of helping you feel less insane, more inspired.Erin also interviews authentic leaders and e

b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck is a business podcast hosted by Erin Hatzikostas, with 315 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80. PitchCentric scores this show on Booking Probability, Listen Score, and live audience signals refreshed every 24 hours.

Erin Hatzikostas hosts b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck, a business show with 315 episodes published.

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  b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck

  315: The One Thing That Makes People Say Yes with David Allison

  Aug 17, 202654 min

  What if the reason people aren't buying, engaging, staying, or following your lead isn't because they need another motivational poster about "teamwork"? It might be because you have no idea what actually matters to them. In this episode, Erin sits down with David Allison, founder of the Valuegraphics Research Company and author of The Values Map , to talk about why demographics, generic corporate values, and a bunch of buzzwords slapped on an office wall don't tell us nearly as much as we think they do. David shares how understanding what matters most to people can make you a better leader, marketer, salesperson, and overall human trying to get other humans to do things. They also dig into how to uncover someone's real values without creepily asking, "So...what are your deepest values?" and why values alignment might explain why certain jobs, people, opportunities, and even parties just click while others make you want to fake a babysitter emergency and leave. In this episode, you'll hear: Why corporate values often become expensive wallpaper and what actually motivates employees Three questions that reveal what matters most to someone without turning the conversation into a therapy session How to use curiosity and the "Third Why" to get past surface-level small talk Why understanding someone's values can make selling, leading, and influencing a whole lot easier How David realized the traditional definition of success was basically a lie for him and why building your work around what matters most can make it suck significantly less Resources Mentioned in the Episode: Check out David's Website: www.davidallisoninc.com Learn more about Value Graphics: www.valuegraphics.com Pre-order David's book, "The Values Map: Discover What Drives You and How to Move Others" Follow David on LinkedIn at davidallisoninc/ Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram Take our simple, fun and insightful "What's your workplace superhero name?" quiz Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book, You Do You-ish Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule . Work with Us Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsuitable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "What matters most to us drives everything we do." "Your corporate values are not the human values of the people who are showing up at your corporation." "Authenticity is, I'm gonna say, not a value, it's the end result of values alignment." "It was, 10 years of living a lie that I didn't know was a lie, because I'd only been taught that this was the truth." Podcast Transcript Erin Hatzikostas sits down with David Allison, founder of the Valuegraphics Research Company, to explore what really motivates people at work. They unpack the difference between corporate values and human values, how leaders and salespeople can discover what matters most to someone, why values alignment influences engagement and decision-making, and how understanding your own values can help you build a career that actually fits. Why "Values" Might Be the Wrong Word Erin: What's the biggest misconception you get when people call you the values guy or talk about the research you do around values? David: One of the biggest confusions is just the word values . We're all used to sitting in boardrooms talking about mission, vision, values. The CEO sends out the annual note saying they've finally figured out the corporate values, and usually they're the same as everybody else's corporate values. They go up on the wall behind the receptionist, everybody's happy, and then they're forgotten about 24 hours later. We also run around talking about what we think our values are. Politicians tell us what our values are. So I actually don't love using the word anymore. What works better is asking: What matters most? What matters most to you? What matters most to your customers? What matters most to your employees? That gets much closer to the kind of values I'm researching. Erin: And it feels more distinctive too. Instead of asking somebody for five or ten values, you can start with one or two things that really matter. David: Exactly. Through our research, we've identified 56 values. And the interesting thing is that you can't simply ask people what their values are, because they'll either intentionally or unintentionally tell you what they want their values to be, or what they want you to think their values are. Instead, you ask about behavior. What do you do all day? How do you feel about this thing? What does this topic mean to you? When you listen to what people are actually doing and start mapping their behaviors, you can work backward and understand what matters most to them. What Hockey Can Tell You About Someone's Values David: I'm Canadian, so let's use hockey. If somebody says they're a hockey fan, don't just stop there. Ask how often they go to games. Do they watch at home? Who do they watch with? Friends? Family? Do they take clients to games? Do they own a jersey? If their team gets eliminated, will they cheer for another team or stop watching completely? You're asking them about something they're excited to talk about. But underneath their answers, you're hearing their values. If they refuse to cheer for another team, maybe loyalty matters a lot to them. If every hockey experience involves their friends but never their family, that tells you something about the relative importance of friendship and family in that context. You listen to what people do, and from there you start to see what matters most. Erin: That's the legit researcher part. You're discerning the thing without actually asking them the thing. The Pink Van: Why Assumptions About People Get Us in Trouble Erin: Let's make this practical. Our listeners might be in sales, leadership, or running businesses. How does this help somebody market better, sell more, or become a better leader? David: I'll give you an example from our research. I was preparing for a keynote for a group of employers in the blue-collar trades. They were dealing with a major talent shortage and wanted to understand how to get more people interested in joining the trades. Our research found that people considering careers in the trades dramatically over-indexed around a value called service to others . They wanted to know they were doing something that helped people and made a difference. The employers were already talking about things like earning more money, getting out of shift work, and avoiding the cost of college. Those are logical benefits. But they weren't saying, "This is your chance to be in a helping profession." After my keynote, a business owner came up to me. He had seven offices across the Southern United States with fleets of service vans. In each fleet, one van was painted pink, and all of the money earned by that van went toward breast cancer research because of a personal story involving his wife. I thought that was the story. He said, "No. The real story is that every day my guys fight over who gets to be in the pink van." Erin: Wow. David: Think about that. If you were marketing to people in the trades based on stereotypes, would you ever have gotten to pink vans? Probably not. You'd be talking about football, tailgates, country music, or whatever other assumptions you had about the audience. But the answer was pink vans. There's almost always a pink van in the research. Something that makes you say, "We never would have guessed that, but now it makes complete sense." When you understand what matters most to people, you can use it to market, motivate, inspire, build policies, engage employees, and make strategic decisions. Three Questions That Reveal What Matters Most Erin: What about people who can't hire your company to conduct a big research study? What questions could they ask employees or clients to get closer to this information themselves? David: We have three questions we call the three telltale questions . We've tested versions of them with people around the world. The important part is that you don't ask one person once and assume you've figured everything out. Ask a lot of people and listen for patterns. Those patterns are the signals in the noise. That's where the values start bubbling to the surface. David: The first question is: Why do you go to work? Someone might immediately say, "To pay my bills." Fine. Ask why else. Maybe their friends are there. Maybe work is their creative outlet. Maybe they feel like they're making a difference. Maybe it's where they feel useful. They're telling you why they choose to spend such a huge portion of their life doing this thing. The second question is: Why would you give away half of your lottery winnings? If someone says they wouldn't, tell them to imagine they won a lottery where giving away half was required. Then ask where they'd give it and why. That's a major behavioral decision. The "why" behind it is usually a value talking. The third question is: If you could send one message to yourself 10 years ago, what would it be? Listen to whether they talk about family, friendship, work, stress, money, kids, health, or something else. Whatever comes up tells you something about what matters most to them. Erin: That's really good. The Values Corporate America Often Misses Erin: Is there a value corporations tend to underestimate? Something that leaders might not put in their top five, but your research shows matters a lot? David: Every workforce is different, so I wouldn't prescribe one value to every company. But there is a cluster that appears again and again. Of the 56 values we've identified, five show up constantly across different industries and groups. We call them the togetherness values : belonging, family, friendship, relationships, and community. Those aren't interchangeable. Belonging is different from community. Community is different from relationships. Companies tend to lump them all together, but you need to understand which one actually matters to your people. The broader point is that humans want some form of connection. So look at your employee research, surveys, hallway conversations, and everything else you already know about your workforce. Which form of togetherness seems to matter most? Then lean into it. David: Because here's the secret to everything: What matters most to us drives everything we do. If you want people to be more engaged, stop quitting, or actually care about the work they're doing, you have to give them more of what matters most. Your Corporate Values Are Not Your Employees' Human Values David: One of the biggest mistakes corporations make is spending two years and millions of dollars figuring out their corporate values and then wondering why employees aren't behaving according to them. Your corporate values are not the human values of the people who are showing up at your corporation. You've only done half the job. The company might decide creativity is one of its core values. Great. But suppose personal growth is one of the strongest human values among your employees. Now you need to connect the dots. Show employees how being creative at work helps them grow as people. Explain why the behavior you're asking for gives them more of something that already matters deeply to them. If you don't make that connection, they'll look at "creativity" written on the wall and think, "Okay, whatever. That doesn't matter to me." Corporate values might actually be better described as guiding principles or a list of ways the organization wants people to behave. Stop Turning Values Into Expensive Wallpaper Erin: You just hit one of my hot spots. It's not enough to say you're a "family-first organization." Tell people what that actually means. Maybe it means you're not expecting someone to answer emails from the soccer field. Maybe leaders who have ideas over the weekend schedule the email to go out Monday instead of firing it off immediately. Specificity is what makes those values feel real. Even something like safety can be communicated in a more human way. Instead of just saying, "We believe in OSHA adherence," explain that you want people to leave work safely and go home to grill burgers with their family that night. It's not just about the value. It's about how you talk about it and how you put it into action. I recently talked to a company whose mantra was "grit and gratitude." I loved that because it's only two things, it's memorable, and there's a little juxtaposition between them. Companies sometimes think more is better. Maybe you're better off choosing one or two things and going deeper. David: I like grit and gratitude because it doesn't sound like everybody else. Under those two ideas, you can still have many different behaviors and principles. But at least there's something distinctive to connect to. How Understanding Values Tripled a Fundraising Target Erin: What's one example where an organization used your research and made a change that had a really profound impact? David: We worked with a hospital foundation in Canada that wanted to attract more high-net-worth donors and increase the size of their gifts. We profiled people in the community who had previously donated to health-related causes but had never donated to this particular foundation. An interesting pattern emerged. Many of the prospective donors were women who had recently been widowed and, for the first time in their lives, were making major financial decisions independently. Our research showed how important that newfound independence and agency were to them. So the foundation changed its approach. Instead of saying, "Here's where your money is going," they said, essentially, "Your gift could help us in several different ways. Which area would you like your money to support?" They sat down with donors and let them decide what mattered to them. By giving those women agency over the decision, the foundation tripled its fundraising target. Erin: Wow. David: They framed their strategy, marketing, and messaging around what mattered most to those people. The decision suddenly became an easy yes because the organization wasn't just asking for money. It was giving people an opportunity to act on something they deeply valued. What Values Alignment Feels Like Erin: I think about this in my own life too. When I was evaluating financial advisors, it was amazing how few people seemed interested in understanding what mattered to me. For me, I wanted someone I could actually connect with and have real conversations with. Not a bunch of BS. If somebody had simply asked me what was most important to me, I would have basically handed them the answer to how to sell to me. David: And here's what's interesting about those situations. When you find a person, product, job, or situation that genuinely aligns with what matters most to you, you often notice the absence of things. You're not second-guessing yourself. You're not lying awake at night running the pros and cons through your head. You're not constantly trying to convince yourself to make the relationship work. It just works. Erin: It clicks into place like a Lego. David: Exactly. Think about parties. There are parties where you walk in and immediately think, "Nope. How quickly can we leave?" And then there are parties where you want to stay all night. You may not be able to explain exactly why. Maybe it's the people, the music, the room, the energy, or some combination of all of it. But something about that environment aligns with what matters to you. Is Authenticity a Value? Erin: This is where your work and mine dovetail. People are craving something they can connect to, whether it's a salesperson, a leader, or a company. Wallpaper corporate values aren't enough. You need specificity, examples, and authenticity. Give people something they can plug into so they can determine whether it aligns with them. And it's actually better if someone can clearly say, "No, this doesn't align with me," than to give them nothing but vanilla and leave them thinking, "I don't know." David: You said earlier that authenticity might be the 57th value. I'm going to reframe that. Authenticity is, I'm gonna say, not a value, it's the end result of values alignment. If you're living authentically, you're living according to what matters most to you. Erin: I think authenticity might also be part of how you uncover the values in the first place. It's the stories, uncommon language, specificity, and willingness to actually expose who you are that allow people to feel what those values really mean. David: I think we're talking about the same thing from different layers. You're looking at the umbrella. I'm down in the weeds. The Question That Changed a High-Stakes Negotiation Erin: I have a story about the phrase "what matters most." When I became interim CEO, I had to renegotiate our largest contract. The vendor wanted more money, and giving it to them could have made an already difficult financial situation much worse. It was high stakes, and I'm not exactly known for being a giant planner. Early in the first conversation, I asked the executive, "What matters most to you in this negotiation?" He wasn't expecting the question, so he answered honestly. His company expected to pursue an IPO, and long-term contracts were incredibly important because investors would want confidence that major clients weren't about to leave. Suddenly, I understood that this negotiation wasn't only about price. A long-term agreement mattered tremendously to him. Switching vendors would have been incredibly difficult for us anyway, so I was perfectly comfortable discussing a long-term contract. That one question completely changed what I understood about the negotiation. David: "What matters most to you about this situation?" or "What matters most to you about this outcome?" are fantastic questions in sales and negotiations. But you can also learn a lot by simply paying attention and being curious. How to Discover Someone's Values Through Small Talk David: Let's use you as an example. There's a photo behind you. What's it a picture of? Erin: My family. My husband and my two children. David: And I can see books behind you. What's one of the most recent books you added? Erin: Probably Fans First by Jesse Cole from the Savannah Bananas. David: Are you a baseball fan? Erin: Not specifically. I'm a big sports fan, though. David: Where did that come from? Erin: My grandmother. She passed away when she was 62, so I was only 11. But I remember sitting in her living room with her. She was about 4'11", sitting in a green leather chair beside the dialysis machine she used at home, smoking a cigarette with a police scanner nearby. She lived in a town of about 800 people, so I'm not sure how much exciting police activity there was to scan. And she always had sports on. She didn't just watch sports. She participated. She yelled at the TV. She was spicy. She absolutely hated Notre Dame, so I still hate Notre Dame today basically as an ode to her. For a woman of her generation, being that passionate about sports was unusual. And I think that's where I got it. The other reason I sti

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  b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck

  314: Why You Need to Trust Your Creative Process

  Aug 3, 202626 min

  Erin tried to become a "better" speaker. She got the coach. Did the reps. Rehearsed the lines. Followed the advice. And then realized she may have accidentally polished the magic right out of herself. In this solo episode, Erin shares what happened when a huge speaking opportunity pushed her into full preparation mode, why over-rehearsing made her feel less connected on stage, and the old coaching advice that came back swinging: Trust your creative process. This one is for anyone who has ever tried to improve themselves and accidentally started sanding down the exact thing that made them stand out. In this episode you'll hear: -Why "best practices" are only useful if they actually work for you -How over-preparing can make you technically better but less you -Why Erin had to 50% Rule her own speaking proces -The difference between memorizing words and connecting to the message -Why your weird little way of doing things might be the whole damn point Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram Take our simple, fun and insightful "What's your workplace superhero name?" quiz Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book, You Do You-ish Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule . Work with Us Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsuitable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "Trust your creative process." "I spent more time searching for the words than searching for the feeling and the passion." "What's worked for you in the past actually might work in the future." "Constantly look for ways to improve without throwing away what makes you you." Trust Your Creative Process Editor's note: This transcript has been edited for clarity, length, and readability. In this solo episode, Erin Hatzikostas shares what happened when she followed traditional public speaking advice so closely that she lost some of the authenticity that made her effective. She explores over-preparation, creative confidence, the 50% Rule, and how to improve your work without abandoning the process that makes you uniquely good at it. When "Leveling Up" Starts to Change You Erin: Over the last nine months, I've gone through a journey that feels full circle, ironic, and maybe even a little hypocritical. Erin: I preach authenticity. In my second book, I talk about the 50% Rule: whenever you're doing something, keep some of what works, introduce something new, and throw out the pieces that feel inauthentic or simply do not fit you. Erin: I'm also a professional speaker. That's my main occupation, and last summer my speaking career was really starting to pick up steam. Then I was selected to speak at the International Association of Speaking Bureaus conference. These are the people who often help organizations find speakers for major events, so getting the chance to speak in front of them felt like a very big deal. Erin: There were almost 100 applicants, and only six of us were selected. Speaking can be a roller coaster. You are constantly trying to earn the next opportunity, even after you've had success. But this felt like one of those moments where I thought, "Okay, Erin. This is your chance. Get your act together." The Pressure to Rehearse Perfectly Erin: Around that same time, I had started working with a true speech and vocal coach, Darcy Webb. She was wonderful because she did not try to turn me into somebody else. She understood what made me, me, and helped bring more of that out. Erin: She helped me embrace the facial expressions I naturally make. She also told me to stop whispering. I insisted I was not whispering, but then I watched the recordings and realized, "Oh. That is a little weird." Erin: One of the biggest things she taught me was that I needed to rehearse. I needed to put in the hours, record myself, repeat the material, and get the words into my body. Erin: I resisted that advice for a long time. Then this huge speaking opportunity came along, and I only had 20 minutes. In the speaking world, shorter is often harder. You have to be more concise, make stronger choices, and communicate the point in less time. Erin: So I decided it was time to become the polished, mega-professional speaker I thought I was supposed to be. I rehearsed and rehearsed. Why Perfect Preparation Did Not Create a Perfect Performance Erin: I already had some baggage around over-rehearsing. When I did my TEDx talk in 2020, I practiced it so much that the delivery stopped feeling like me. I still love the content, but the performance felt too controlled. My passion did not fully come through. Erin: Still, I prepared heavily for the speakers bureau conference. I used some of my best material, knew what I wanted to say, and felt ready. Erin: Then the event came. I did not flop, but I did not knock it out of the park either. Erin: I am always trying to knock it out of the park, not because I think I work harder than everyone else or because I need people to tell me I'm great. I want to connect. I want people to feel something. That connection is what authenticity can create. Erin: At first, I found other things to blame. Someone after me absolutely crushed it. My necklace was jangling against the microphone. There were all these little details I could point to. Erin: But the deeper truth was that I had over-prepared. I was not fully in the moment with the people in front of me. I was delivering something polished, but I was not drawing from that conviction and energy that usually comes from deep inside me and pours into the audience. When Rehearsal Became the New Habit Erin: The confusing part was that I had also learned how to rehearse. So for the next several months, I kept doing it. Erin: I practiced for events in January, February, and March. I crafted catchy lines. I added new language. I made sure I could nail the material. Erin: The talks went well. I did not bomb. I created customized moments and found creative ways to make each speech feel specific to the audience. Erin: But something was missing. Erin: Usually, I can feel the connection in the room. You can see it in people's faces. You know when the audience does not want the experience to end. These events were successful on paper, but they did not feel the same. Erin: Then I spoke at an event in Chicago. I said everything I meant to say. I did not forget the important parts. Technically, I nailed it. But that thing I care about most still was not there. Words Versus Intent Erin: That was when I realized what over-preparing had taken away from me. Erin: My talks have structure. They are mapped into sections, and I know the points I want to make. I may have specific phrases or stories I want to land, but I have never needed every word written out. Erin: Before I became so focused on rehearsal, I spent more time thinking about the intent of each section. I would ask, "What am I really trying to get across here? What do I need these people to understand or feel?" Erin: Then I allowed myself the freedom to communicate that idea in the moment. Erin: That freedom gave me space to bring in something I heard earlier in the day, respond to the audience, interact more naturally, or follow a thought that came to me while I was speaking. Erin: When I over-rehearsed, I spent more time searching for the exact words than searching for the feeling, the purpose, and the passion behind them. Erin: I cannot do both equally well. Some people can. Actors can deliver rehearsed lines with incredible emotional depth. Some speakers can memorize every beat and still make it feel spontaneous. God bless them. That is a real skill. Erin: But it is not my skill. It is not where I bring the most value. "Why Don't You Trust Your Creative Process?" Erin: This brought me back to something my first executive coach taught me years ago when I was still in corporate. Erin: I was preparing a speech for a leadership event. I had planned the whole talk, but I had not figured out the ending. In my notes, I had essentially written, "And then some bada boom, bada bing ending." Erin: I went into our coaching session and confessed that I thought I had a major flaw. I told her, "I'm a great starter, but I'm not a great finisher. I worked on this talk for hours, and I still could not complete it." Erin: I expected her to give me techniques, hacks, or some process that would fix what I believed was broken. Erin: Instead, she stopped and asked, "Erin, are you typically successful?" Erin: I told her that I was not successful at everything, but yes, especially when it came to public speaking, I was usually better than average. Erin: Then she said, "Why don't you trust your creative process?" Erin: That question has stayed with me for more than eight years. Advice Is Not an Absolute Erin: People love to give advice in absolutes. Never start a conversation this way. Always prepare for an interview that way. Follow this formula to find your career path. Use these exact steps to become successful. Erin: My rule is this: be very cautious about advice that begins with "always" or "never." Erin: There is more information available than ever, and many people make money by selling certainty. They tell you they have the formula. But even excellent advice may not work exactly as prescribed for you. Erin: If you talked to 100 successful speakers, probably 99 of them would tell you that you have to do the reps, practice constantly, and rehearse until the material is locked in. Erin: That may work beautifully for those 99 people. It does not work that way for me. Erin: My mistake was not the rehearsal itself. My mistake was failing to apply my own 50% Rule. I accepted the advice as a total system instead of asking which parts would help me and which parts would erase something important. Improve Without Erasing What Makes You Good Erin: The answer is not to reject coaching, training, or preparation. I have learned so much from all of it. Erin: I am a stronger speaker now. I understand my voice better. I am more aware of my physical presence. I have new ways to customize talks and prepare meaningful openings. I am continuing to evolve. Erin: But I am no longer willing to give up the creative process that works for me. Erin: Now I prepare in my own way. I spend hours thinking, organizing stories, and deciding what each section needs to accomplish. I rehearse important pieces, but I do not force myself to say every sentence exactly the same way every time. Erin: I focus on the intent. I focus on the passion. I focus on the point I want to make and the people I want to reach. Erin: When I returned to that process for events in June and July, I could feel the difference. I felt like myself again. Trust the Evidence From Your Own Life Erin: I want the same for you. Erin: People will tell you how to run a meeting, answer interview questions, build a career, lead a team, create content, or prepare for a major opportunity. Learn from them. Borrow what makes you better. Stay open to coaching and improvement. Erin: But also trust the data from your own life. Erin: What has worked for you in the past may still work in the future. Your process may need to evolve, but evolution does not require you to throw away the qualities that made you effective in the first place. Erin: Use the 50% Rule. Keep some of what works. Add new tools. Throw the pieces that do not fit into the trash. Erin: Constantly look for ways to improve without abandoning what makes you, you. Erin: Trust your creative process.

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  b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck

  313: The Hidden Ways We Survive, Stand Out, and Stay Sane at Work

  Jun 29, 202655 min

  Modern work is getting weird. In this episode, Erin and Nicole talk about career envy, AI "bot sitting," Gen Z's job search chaos, parents overstepping in the hiring process, airport drama, bathroom hideouts, and the deeply human ways people are trying to stand out, stay sane, and survive work right now. They also unpack one of Erin's favorite new questions for killing comparison: "Would I actually want their life?" Because chasing someone else's version of success only works if you're willing to take the whole life that comes with it. In this episode you'll hear: Why career envy gets a lot less powerful when you zoom out How AI slop is changing resumes, hiring, and the way we try to stand out What "bot sitting" says about the strange new reality of work Why parents need to step away from the hiring manager The hilarious and slightly unhinged ways people cope at work This one is part workplace commentary, part group therapy, part "what the hell is happening out there?" And honestly? We need all three. Anya Roodnitsky Video: https://www.instagram.com/p/DU6VPHhEgGn/ Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram Take our simple, fun and insightful "What's your workplace superhero name?" quiz Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book, You Do You-ish Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule . Work with Us Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsuitable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "You cannot compare yourself to somebody else without first asking: would I actually want their life?" "We do make shit up all the time. It's just usually bad shit about us and good shit about other people. You have the right to flip that." "You're creating an entire life you don't have to escape from." "If you want to be heard, stand out, picked, chosen, or done business with, AI slop is going to kill you." Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity, readability, and flow while preserving the core conversation and strongest takeaways. In this episode, Erin Hatzikostas and Nicole Licata unpack the weird, wild, and deeply human ways people are surviving modern work. From career envy and AI "bot sitting" to Gen Z's job search chaos, parents overstepping in hiring, airport drama, bathroom hideouts, and the pressure to stand out in a world full of sameness, this conversation is part workplace commentary, part group therapy, and part "what the hell is happening out there?" Women, Work, and the Underground Network Erin: I have some updates. The first one is related to something you just said. I have to laugh at how freaking amazing working women are at multitasking. This morning, I drove 45 minutes to Southington for an 8:30 coffee meeting with a former client who is now a current client because they're bringing me back again. But before that, I had placed a BJ's Warehouse order at the Southington location because we have a graduation party coming up. So I had the coffee meeting, got gas under $4, picked up a ridiculous amount of party supplies, came home, sweated my ass off putting it all away, and thought, this is how women work. People underestimate not only how efficient we are, but also how connected we are. That reminded me of something else. A few weeks ago, our financial advisors decided to move to another bank for the second time in six years. The first time, we followed them. The second time, we paused. I happen to use the same financial advisor as my woman work crush, Jean LaTour, who is a former chief investment officer for CBS and Aetna. She is a big deal, authentic as hell, and I'm proud to call her a friend. When we both got the news, we immediately started texting. I told her the deal Morgan Stanley offered us to incentivize us to stay, which was different from hers. We were sent to different people. We've had lunch. We've compared notes on how the transition has gone. So story number one is this: do not underestimate women and our ability to get all the things done, whether it's picking up BJ's after a business meeting or quietly sharing information behind the scenes to make sure we get the best deal possible. Nicole: That reminds me of one of our early episodes about the things women don't talk about. One of the big ones was finances. It's a mistake I still make sometimes. When things are changing, it can feel overwhelming. You want to trust what's happening. You get comfortable. But these are businesses. These are deal makers. You're their client, and you're paying them. The more information you have, the better. I applaud you for asking, "Who else is in this with me? Let's have some conversations," instead of blindly going along with a deal that sounded good enough. Erin: Exactly. And I know we have a lot of male listeners, so I'm not saying women are better. But get women into leadership positions because we are doing this at work too. We're multitasking, sharing information, and doing business differently. Sometimes that women's network is working under the covers more than people think. And I mean that in the least weird way possible. The Question That Kills Career Envy Erin: My second thought is something that has been helping me a lot lately. I've been feeling really good about a mindset shift I've made around jealousy, comparison, and chasing things I don't actually want. The speaking business can be ego-driven. I'm not selling widgets. I'm selling myself. So it's easy to get caught up in the idea that more bookings equal more validation. But I don't want to be a speaker who does 40, 60, or 80 gigs a year. I used to think that was mostly because I didn't want to be on the road that much or because it was too much to balance with family. But it's also because I can't give fully to clients if I'm doing that much. I have eight gigs between June and September, and I'm at capacity in terms of my ability to customize, understand each client, and not come in with a cookie-cutter talk. So here's the question that has helped me when I see another speaker's amazing new reel or big event announcement: Would I want their life? And I don't mean, "That probably sucks because they're on the road so much." I mean literally: would I want their whole life? Sometimes I know these people and their backgrounds, and sometimes I don't. But I ask myself, would I want the entire life that comes with that thing I'm jealous of? The answer is almost always no. I want my life. I want time with my husband. I want time with my kids. I want breathing room on a Friday. I don't want to take one thing and give up everything else. You cannot compare yourself to somebody else without first asking, "Would I actually want their life?" Maybe once in a while the answer will be yes. But even with celebrities, ask yourself: would I want their life? You don't get to have the thing you're jealous of and keep everything you already have. You can't say, "I want that event with 3,000 people on a stage in Hawaii," without also taking the number of gigs, sacrifices, relationships, lifestyle, location, and everything else that comes with it. You cannot pick and choose. That has put me in this place of gratitude for the holistic picture of my life. When speaker friends ask, "How's it going?" there is often this undertone of, "How many bookings are you doing?" And I've started answering differently. I say, "I really fucking love my life." Yes, this is the busiest summer I've had speaking. But when you ask how I'm doing, I'm thinking about my daughter having the time of her life in her senior year, my husband and I getting along great, the weather being beautiful, visiting family, and building a life I actually want. Nicole: What you're saying is interesting because you're not saying don't change or don't evolve. You're saying look at the landscape, the tools, the opportunities, and the framework you actually have. Don't look at someone else's life with no context about who they are, how they got there, or what sacrifices they made, and assume you can just import one piece of it. Erin: Yes. And I'm also giving people permission to make shit up. Let's say someone's title comes across your feed and you think, "I always thought I wanted that role." You don't know that person. So you have the right to create a different narrative. We make shit up all the time. It's just usually bad shit about us and good shit about other people. You have the right to flip that. If you're going to tell stories in your head, tell great stories about yourself too. Nicole: As long as the narrative gives you balance and helps you dig into where you are instead of making you feel terrible about yourself, it can create growth. Erin: Exactly. Because when you stop spending so much energy being depressed about where you are, you can actually grow. And this is where the 50% Rule helps too. Once you do things half-normal, half-you, it becomes almost impossible to compare because you're not trying to do it the same way anyway. I've told the universe something different. I've said I want around 25 gigs a year. I want balance. I want this life. And the universe has started to deliver exactly what is perfect for me. Nicole: It goes back to what you said. You're creating an entire life you don't have to escape from. Erin: Yes. This is not the time in my 50s to create something that looks good on paper but feels terrible in reality. I'm creating a lifestyle. Authenticity as a Business Differentiator Erin: My third thought is something I'm still processing. I had a repeat client who brought me in specifically for their sales organization, which I love because authenticity can sometimes sound like an HR thing. But where I get really excited is when it becomes about differentiation, growing your business, and doing things differently in a tangible way. This client brought me in for a leadership keynote, and then we worked together for six months doing real-time group coaching with their sales team. We took actual scenarios and worked on making their responses, proposals, and communication more authentic. Recently, I learned they had their best sales year ever by far. And they are going through DOJ approval for an acquisition at a 20X EBITDA, which is hard to come by these days. They're not an AI company. The investment community is very focused on AI right now, so this was a big deal. I am not taking full credit. There are always many factors. But I also don't believe in coincidences. They invested in differentiating and doubling down on authenticity as their advantage. Then they had a huge sales year, which contributed to the valuation and the sale. That was pretty freaking cool. Nicole: They found their mantra, put it into action, and got results. Weird how that works. Airport Drama Nicole: I want to share the latest reason I got stopped at the airport, because there is always something. I was coming back into the United States, and my luggage got flagged. I've been traveling only with carry-on luggage because I'm constantly booking multiple flights with different airlines to maximize scheduling and pricing. The travel market is crazy, and I am not a bazillionaire. So first, my known traveler ID and redress number disappeared off my ticket. I get sent through multiple lines at JetBlue. They finally put the information back in, and I go to the TSA PreCheck line. Then they tell me I have to go to the special TSA PreCheck line. Erin: Who knew those even existed? Nicole: Exactly. I had already given myself a lot of time, and I had already passed USDA inspection, so no fruit and vegetable jail this time. Then they immediately flag my bags. They pull them aside. There are officers, dogs, everything. An agent comes up to me and says, "Ma'am, we've seen some unknown powders in here. Do you have coffee?" I said, "I do have coffee, but it's in this bag," meaning the backpack he had already handed back to me. Then he starts going through my suitcase and pulls out a packing cube. He says, "Ma'am, the issue is that your luggage is too well packed. It is too dense." I was like, "My bathing suit and underwear?" Then he finds some lady products because I'm a woman in menopause. He asks, "What is this syringe?" I told him to read the label. He opens it, pushes it out, and realizes it's Lady Lube. He starts calling over officers and saying it's illegal. Then a woman walks up out of nowhere, slams the suitcase shut, and says, "You're free to go." Erin: Women to the rescue. Nicole: Pink underwear, coffee, unknown powders, densely packed luggage, Lady Lube. I was done. Bot Sitting and the Strange New Reality of Work Erin: Let's dive into some of the craziest recent workplace stories. Will there be lessons that inspire you and make you a better person? Probably not. Possibly. But mostly, we're here to laugh. The first one I came across was the concept of bot sitting. Have you heard this term? Nicole: I have, but explain it. Erin: It's basically babysitting AI. I've seen it with my 15-year-old, Mick, who has become really talented with AI, especially coding and building things. But he'll set something up, and then I'll walk into his room and see his laptop out while he's on his phone scrolling videos because he's bot sitting. He's waiting for AI to crank something out or process. This article was talking about how AI is supposed to make everyone more efficient, but in companies, people are using AI and then waiting two hours for it to process. So they're basically being paid to scroll their phones and bot sit. Nicole: I know someone from the art world who just lost his job. He's a young medical researcher, and the only jobs he's being offered are essentially bot sitting jobs. These are entry-level roles where he helps internal AI systems learn inside research companies. His job is to feed data into the bot, help it spit things out more efficiently, check the results, and fix errors. That's what he's being offered as a PhD researcher. Erin: Wow. Bot sitting. Gen Z, Job Search Chaos, and the Resume That Actually Worked Erin: That's a good segue into one of my favorite articles: Anya Roodnitsky and her resume. Anya is a recent Dartmouth grad with a mathematical physics degree. Not a slouch. But the job market is tough, especially for new grads. She sent out hundreds of resumes, and she didn't just phone it in. She customized them. She did all the things HR people tell you to do. And she got nothing. So out of frustration and fun, she made a simple, authentic PowerPoint-style resume and posted it on social media. She did exactly what I talk about all the time: she exposed who she was and her flaws right away. She didn't pretend. She said, basically, "I've been doing hundreds of these, and it's rough out there, so here's what I'm going to do." She talked about working with nuclear reactors and joked that she was basically Oppenheimer. She included competence, personality, and humor. She even promised to bring in baked goods. The video got hundreds of thousands of views. She got 52 introductions or coffee chats, 20 referrals, 10 interviews, and landed a job. Yes. Different is better than better. If you're going through the same thing every day, whether it's resumes, sales presentations, town halls, or HR emails nobody reads, it is your fault if people aren't paying attention. You're not pattern interrupting. You're not being authentic. You're not giving people a reason to stop and notice. In this day and age, especially if you're trying to get hired, AI slop is going to kill you if you want to be heard, stand out, picked, chosen, or done business with. Nicole: It's also disheartening that we can't trust these giant systems we've created. It feels like you have to be a disruptor just to access society and get a job. I love her, but it's also fully disheartening for someone like me who would never do that. Erin: Right. Her example was outlandish, but the broader point is that Gen Z is taking to content and social media because that's what they know. They're frustrated and saying, "Fuck it." And honestly, this is what I'm saying. This is the future. Parents, Please Step Away From the Hiring Manager Nicole: One thing I'm finding as a hiring manager is that students are getting more tools, encouragement, and guidance around networking and mentoring than we had. That part is good. But with that, I'm having a total Step Brothers moment because I'm getting emails from parents. Erin: Oh no. When we say work networks, we are not talking about your parents. Nicole: Do not call me and say, "What does my kid need to do?" Erin: Are you kidding me? Nicole: I'm not. Parents are engaged in their kids' lives and professional development in a way our families weren't because the world has changed. But I cannot take that seriously. It's unfair to the student too. Maybe they're lazy, or maybe they have an overbearing parent. Either way, it makes them look bad. Erin: It's a red flag. A disqualifying red flag. And if a parent did contact me, I'd be tempted to ask, "Is this how you've operated throughout their schooling? Have you been stepping in like this?" Because if the answer is yes, there's your reason. You are the problem. Not just because you picked up the phone now, but because you've probably spent years enabling them instead of slowly stepping back and letting them figure things out. Nicole: We all understand networks. We all understand nepotism exists. But cold-calling nepotism is a whole different world. If you're engaging with a hiring manager, make sure it's for a job you want. And ask yourself: if your child were dating someone, would you call that person and ask 27 questions? Professional and personal relationships are not in totally different universes. They're on the same spectrum. So from the hiring desk of Nicole: if you're a parent, don't call me. Workplace Weirdness, Government Voicemails, and HR Stories Nicole: One of my favorite stories you sent was about the Washington State DMV. The story was that when people called the DMV and chose Spanish language support, instead of getting Spanish, they got heavily accented English. I don't know if it's real, but because I work for a government agency, I can absolutely see how this could happen. Government tech systems are constantly evolving, and agencies don't always have access to all of their own systems. Voicemails are not always recorded by voice actors or vendors. Sometimes it's just someone in IT with a nice voice. Erin: And maybe they were trying to save money and decided Rosario down the hall would do it. Nicole: Exactly. Someone says, "She speaks clearly." And suddenly that's the voicemail. Erin: I think it's real. I tried to look it up, and it didn't immediately flag as fake. I did have another article on the list about a woman supposedly working three full-time remote jobs, but that one appears to be fake. Listeners, you'll have to tell us: do you know if the DMV story is real? The Bathroom Popsicle Bandit and Where People Hide at Work Nicole: The random HR stories also had me dying. My favorite was the Bathroom Popsicle Bandit. Apparently, an employee would sit in the bathroom all day e

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  b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck

  312: The 7 Trust Languages Every Leader Should Know with Minda Harts

  Jun 15, 202640 min

  Trust at work isn't built through big promises or polished corporate statements. It's built in the tiny moments. In this episode, Erin sits down with bestselling author, speaker, professor, and filmmaker Minda Harts to talk about her framework for the 7 Trust Languages and why trust is really a communication issue hiding in plain sight. In this episode, you'll hear: -Why leaders need to stop pretending employees don't see what's happening -How the 7 Trust Languages can help leaders build stronger relationships -How to rebuild trust after a mistake without rushing the repair This episode is for anyone who wants to lead with more honesty, communicate with more humanity, and make work suck a whole lot less. https://www.mindaharts.com/ "> Minda's Website: https://www.mindaharts.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindaharts/ ">Connect with Minda on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindaharts/ *]:pointer-events-auto [content-visibility:auto] supports-[content-visibility:auto]:[contain-intrinsic-size:auto_100lvh] R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:1413613f-d4e9-447b-a6c6-34b45367f7be-25" data-turn-id-container= "request-WEB:1413613f-d4e9-447b-a6c6-34b45367f7be-25" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! - Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram - Take our simple, fun and insightful"What's your workplace superhero name?"quiz - Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book," You Do You (ish )" -Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule . -Work with Us -Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsustainable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "Don't outsource your humanity." "People are human first and colleagues second." "Trust is a noun and a verb." "We can solve for respect, right? We can solve for trust." Intro Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity, readability, and length while preserving the core conversation and key insights from the episode. In this episode of b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck , Erin Hatzikostas talks with Minda Harts about workplace trust, the seven trust languages, leadership communication, rebuilding trust after mistakes, giving better feedback, psychological safety, and why leaders need to stop outsourcing their humanity. Why Trust Is the Real Workplace Issue Erin: I'm fascinated by your background because I'm like, "Oh yeah, she's all about trust. She's a speaker." And then I'm like, "Oh wait, she's a professor. Oh wait, she's a filmmaker. Oh wait, she wrote books." I'm curious about trust. It's not exactly the sexiest topic, but there must have been a moment or story that made you obsessed with it. Minda: The obsession actually started during COVID. I was living in New York City at the time, and I woke up around three o'clock in the morning. I kept hearing this voice saying, "The issue is always trust." I didn't think too much about it in the moment, but I wrote "trust languages" in my notes app. Over time, I kept coming back to it. The more I thought about all the writing I'd done over the years, I realized the real problem I was trying to solve was trust. In the workplace, when certain things happen, there's usually an expectation underneath that isn't being met. That erodes trust. But often, people don't even know they're doing it. So I started to see that it's not just a trust issue. It's also a communication issue. If the other person knew what you needed, could that get trust back on the tracks? In personal relationships, trust is a no-brainer. If I can't trust you, I don't know if this relationship is going to work. But in the workplace, we give people a pass for doing things that aren't trustworthy, and we never have conversations about it. The Seven Trust Languages Erin: I love the idea of trust languages because everybody thinks of love languages. You have seven trust languages. Where does it start? Do you need to understand the other person, or are these seven things everyone needs to do? Minda: My thesis is that we all have a primary, secondary, and tertiary trust language. There may be a time when we're speaking all of them, but if I'm a leader and you report to me, and I want to get the most productivity out of my entire team, not just my go-to people, then in our next one-on-one, I'm going to ask, "What does trust look like to you?" I want to make sure we have the most harmonious working relationship possible. I want to make sure you get the most out of being on this team. So what does trust look like to you? When someone answers that question, they'll usually tell you two or three of their trust languages without even knowing the labels. If I know feedback is important to you, or transparency is important to you, I can make note of that. Then when we're working together, I remember, "Erin values transparency. She values when I'm not being ambiguous. She values feedback that's meaningful and insightful." I tell people it's about the double E's. We're either enhancing trust or eroding trust. Erin: Always up or down. Minda: Exactly. We may not be able to solve everything at work, but we can solve for respect. We can solve for trust. The Question Every Leader Should Ask Erin: That question is so powerful. I used to lead a lot of employees, and I'm thinking, "Crap, if I could've simply said in one meeting, 'Trust is important. What does trust look like for you?'" Minda: I never had a manager ask me that. Not because they didn't want trust with me, but because we're all moving so fast in the workday that we forget there's a human on the other end. The data shows that if we have more trust, we're more productive and less anxious. I don't want to be the reason someone is spiraling through the day and not even know it. Erin: Imagine asking that in an interview when you're trying to attract the best talent. You think people aren't going to flock to that? They're going to be like, "Wow, I've never heard that before." Minda: Yes. And I write about that in the book. If you know acknowledgement is important to you, ask questions in the interview process that help you see whether that environment can provide it. Some people don't naturally say, "Great job. Thank you for delivering that project. I don't know where we'd be without it." That may not be the language they're most comfortable giving. But you may need that to survive and thrive at work. So tell people what's important to you. Advocate for yourself. We're not always going to work for the person who asks, "What does trust look like?" Sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns. Erin: And by sometimes, we mean most of the time. How to Ask for the Trust You Need Erin: Most of our listeners are leaders, but let's be honest, they're also employees. Everybody wants to be a great leader, but they also want to know how to be led better. Can you give an example of how someone might use the trust languages in an interview to understand what kind of manager they'd be working for? Minda: One trust language that is really important right now is sensitivity, which is about empathy and being mindful of our actions, tone, and behaviors. If I were interviewing, I might say, "Many people work together in the workplace, but they experience the workplace differently. If I reported to you and there was a natural disaster where I live, and I couldn't get into the office three or five days a week, how would we handle that?" That question tells me a lot about the manager. If they say, "Absolutely. Were you impacted by the fires? I know that must have been tough," that tells me something. But if they say, "Maybe you should move somewhere else because we need someone in the office five days a week," that tells me something too. You start to see how people humanize you, or whether they're robotic. Sensitivity, Security, and Psychological Safety Minda: Another example is what happens in meetings. We've all been in a situation where someone says a joke that isn't funny to everyone. Does the leader sweep it under the rug and let that person keep saying inappropriate things in team meetings? Or, if I have an issue, can I bring it to you without fear of retribution? A lot of trust is eroded in big team meetings. People speak over each other. People say things that are inappropriate, not necessarily because they woke up deciding to be inappropriate, but because they're used to talking any kind of way. That's where psychological safety comes in, which is connected to the trust language of security. Even if we have a difference of opinion, there should still be enough respect for me to have a good conversation with you. And if someone gives feedback, how do you receive it? Do you say, "I've never heard that before," and get defensive? Or do you say, "Let me consider what you're saying. Tell me more. Let me ask some questions." These behaviors keep showing up at work, and people don't always realize how detrimental they can be. Erin: Everybody's different. I'm thinking about two people who support my business. One is more on the sensitivity side. If something gets messed up, I know I need to say, "Dude, no big deal at all." And when something is done well, I need to say the thing that's already inside my head: "You crushed it." The other person is about as far from sensitive as you can imagine. For her, follow-through probably matters more. She's my operations person. It's more like, "Erin, you said you were going to send me three videos. Send me the three videos." Understanding those people is really important. How to Rebuild Trust After You Mess Up Erin: Rebuilding trust is always a big one. Let's say you screwed something up with a client, customer, or major project. What are some ways to rebuild trust that people may not think of? Minda: One trust language that matters here is demonstration. Do our actions align with our values? I can tell you all day that I'm going to make the tacos the way you expect them every time you come to the taco truck. But if every time you come, they're made differently, I'm not demonstrating that you can trust this place. When we make a mistake, we can acknowledge it. "You know what? We have a new cook. We're training them today. But we value you as a customer." Then we pay attention. "Oh, you like your cheese sprinkled this way? Now that I know that, I want to demonstrate that you can trust us. Next time you come, I'm going to check the bag before you leave." It's the show and the tell. A lot of times in life, we want to skip over the repair part. We say, "I said I'm sorry. Move on." But rebuilding trust requires demonstration over time. I believe if trust can be broken, it can be rebuilt, if it's not egregious. But it requires action. Trust is a noun and a verb. Erin: It takes patience. When we mess up, we want instant gratification. We want the wound to be healed right away. In a big corporation, it might be, "We'll give you a fee holiday," because we want something tangible and quick. But if you slow down and accept that it may be uncomfortable for a little while, then next week you can show up differently. You can go above and beyond. You can demonstrate the repair. Minda: Absolutely. And we also have to give people the opportunity to rebuild. If we've been burned in our personal or professional lives, sometimes we come into the next situation with our defenses up. You may be the best boss I've never had yet, but if I'm still holding onto hurts and broken promises from my last situation, I'm not going to get the best out of the situation with you, and you're not going to get the best from me. So we also have to be self-aware. Is this person really eroding trust, or am I bringing baggage from past experiences? Erin: Right. It's easy to tell stories like, "The boss is mad at me because I got a three-word email." But maybe the boss is running to another meeting and isn't actually worried about the mistake you made. What to Do When You Break Trust With Your Boss Erin: Let's say you mess something up with your boss. Maybe you botch a report, lose a customer, or mess up some technology. Beyond demonstrating that you can get it right next time, what else helps? Minda: Remember that your boss is human too. They have expectations you may not be aware of, especially if you're new to the team. You might say, "I know expectations can change depending on priorities, and I want to make sure we're aligned. I really enjoy working on your team, and I want our working relationship to be strong. What do you need from me to do your best work?" Success is not a solo sport. When you ask that kind of question, they may not say, "Transparency is important to me," or, "Follow-through is important to me," but they'll tell you something that reveals what matters. Then you can make a mental note. If you say you'll get something done by five and you can't, don't workplace ghost them. Follow up and say, "I know the deadline is approaching. Could I get an extension of one hour? I'll get it to you shortly." That keeps trust on the tracks. We create narratives in our heads that people will be upset with us, but most people just want honesty. We all bump up against deadlines. We all make mistakes. The issue is how we communicate it. The Leadership Mistake That Drives Minda Crazy Erin: What gets under your skin? What's your biggest leadership pet peeve? What's the simple thing leaders do wrong that you wish they'd change? Minda: I really value transparency, which is clarity and honesty. What gets under my skin is when leaders act like employees are stupid. We see the smoke coming out of the chimney. We hear the alarms going off. Then you come and tell us, "There's nothing to worry about. Nothing to see here." You may not know why the smoke is happening. You may not know why the alarms are going off. But acknowledge it. Say, "I know you've smelled the smoke. I've smelled it too. I don't know exactly what's causing it, but once I do, I'll let you know." That feels better and keeps trust intact more than pretending nothing happened. Don't pretend we didn't just do a reorganization. Don't pretend we didn't just lay off half the team. Let's humanize it. People are human first and colleagues second. Sometimes leaders think they can't be honest because they're privy to certain information. Then say that. "I don't have all the information right now, but I understand how this might make you feel. If you have questions, book time with me and let's talk it through." That feels much better than watching someone's work friend get laid off after ten years and then pretending nothing happened. Erin: I love that. Stop thinking your employees are stupid. The bar is low, isn't it? Minda: It's so low. Don't Outsource Your Humanity Erin: I saw a post where someone asked you a question about AI, and the gremlin that came out of you was, "Don't outsource your humanity." What caused that? Minda: Someone asked me about using AI in workplace communication. I think it's important to use the tools available to us. But what can happen is I put my thoughts into an agent, then I email you. Then you put your thoughts into an agent, and now you're emailing me back. At that point, we've taken ourselves out of it. It's just two agents talking to each other. There's no nuance. The tools don't understand the history of what happened in the meeting. They're getting it from one angle. So before you press send, just because the grammar is great and the message is direct, take another look. Think about the nuance. Think about the relationship. When this person finishes reading the email, how are they going to feel? What is the relationship going to feel like? If we're just two agents talking to each other, we may not be building trust. We may be eroding it. That's why I said, "Don't outsource your humanity." Erin: Preaching to the choir. I'm an authenticity girl. Sounding smart is now suspicious. Stop sounding smart. How to Give Tough Feedback Without Eroding Trust Erin: Can we talk about giving tough feedback? Whether it's an annual review or on the fly, I think the feedback sandwich is over. Maybe that worked when people didn't know they were being sandwiched, but now we all know. How do you give transparent feedback while still building trust? Minda: One thing I created is a game called The Trust Catalyst, which helps people practice these conversations so they don't erode trust. If we're doing a one-on-one or year-end review, I'm not going to start by launching into feedback. If you sit down or appear on Zoom, and the first thing I say is, "That report you did last week should have been done differently," you're immediately thinking, "I didn't know this was a problem." That sets the tone for the whole meeting. Think of the seven trust languages as tools. If you have a nail, you're not going to grab a wrench first. You're going to grab the right tool. Maybe you start with acknowledgement. Maybe you start with sensitivity because you know this person has had a rough year. When you do get to feedback, make sure it's meaningful and gives the person an opportunity to grow. It's not just what you say. It's how you say it. You can say, "We need to meet these deadlines more consistently. Is there something you need from me so we can make sure you hit this mark three weeks from now?" That sounds very different from making someone feel like they may not have a job by the end of the week. I always go back to the double E's. Is what I'm about to say going to enhance this relationship or erode it? Think about what you want the end of the conversation to look like. Do you want the person to feel down and out, waiting to turn off the camera? Or is there a way that when you see each other later, the relationship still feels intact? Growing up, my mom and dad could say the exact same thing to me, but when my dad said it, I wanted to spiral down the wall because his delivery was harsh. My mom could say the same thing, and I would receive it because I knew she was telling me in a way that helped me grow. That's something leaders and colleagues can do better. When Your Peer Becomes Your Employee Erin: Here's a sticky situation: your peer becomes your employee. You get promoted, and Joe, who used to be your sidekick and confidant, is now reporting to you. How do you build this new level of trust when the relationship changes? Minda: That happens a lot, and it can be sticky depending on which side of the friendship you're on. A big part of it is transparency. Talk about the elephant in the room. You might say, "I know we have a great working relationship, and now I'm in this leadership position. There may be times when I have to put certain priorities first, but I want you to know you can always come to me. I hope we can have two relationships: our working relationship and our friendship. There may be times when I have sensitive information I can't talk about like I could before, but I hope we can find th

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  b Cause Work Doesn't Have to Suck

  311: The Secret to Tough Conversations (From a C-Suite Whisperer) with Paru Radia

  Jun 1, 202638 minS0

  <p >After years of advising CEOs and senior leaders, she's learned that the higher you climb, the more the same human stuff shows up: insecurity, miscommunication, fear of failure, and avoiding the conversations nobody wants to have. <p></p> <p >In this episode, Erin sits down with the self-proclaimed "C-Suite Whisperer" , Paru Radia, to talk about tough conversations, turning adversity into an advantage, and why standing still might be the riskiest thing you can do. Along the way, Paru shares lessons from her own journey and her no-BS coaching style. <p></p> Some of the things you'll hear are: <p> <...

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