Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Informative, inspiring and fun!

Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change is a news podcast hosted by Michael Liebreich, Bryony Worthington, with 306 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 85.

Michael Liebreich, Bryony Worthington hosts Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change, a news show with 306 episodes published.

Our AI reads these to draft pitches. Use them as grounding for a pitch that cites a real guest and a specific topic.

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  Episode #276

  Is The Earth Warming Faster Than We Thought? | Ep276: Peter Cox

  Sep 30, 20261h 7m

  This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by Peter Cox, Professor of Climate System Dynamics at the University of Exeter and Director of the Global Systems Institute. A former lead author of the IPCC climate reports, Peter has spent decades studying the complex feedbacks between the climate, carbon cycle and natural world. They delve into some of the biggest questions in climate science today: Is the planet warming faster than we thought? What is the role of forcing versus feedback? How much of the recent change is being driven by external forces, including the decline of reflective sulphur pollution, and how much is the climate system responding in ways that amplify warming?  They explore why the Earth is reflecting less sunlight back into space, the growing Earth energy imbalance, climate sensitivity, tipping points in the Amazon and Arctic, and whether solar radiation modification should remain taboo. Topics discussed in this episode: Why the Earth is darkening Is global warming accelerating? The Earth’s energy imbalance Climate sensitivity and feedbacks Amazon and Arctic tipping points The hidden cooling from pollution Geoengineering the planet Positive clean energy tipping points Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Professor Peter Cox’s bio: https://experts.exeter.ac.uk/962-peter-cox/about Professor Cox’s publications: https://experts.exeter.ac.uk/962-peter-cox/publications Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com Acronyms: IPCC: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change CMIP6: Coupled Model Intercomparison Project 6 CERES: Clouds and the Earth's Radiant Energy System ARIA: Advanced Research and Invention Agency SO2: Sulphur Dioxide RCP8.5: Representative Concentration Pathway 8.5 SSP5-85: Shared Socioeconomic Pathway 5 - Radiative Forcing 8.5 IAM: Integrated Assessment Model AMOC: Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation PV: Photovoltaics SRM: Solar Radiation Modification Chapters 00:00 Coming Up 01:08 Professor Peter Cox 03:40 Climate System Modelling 07:36 Climate Tipping Points 17:04 Accelerating Global Warming 18:57 Earth’s Energy Imbalance 22:13 The Darkening Planet 37:59 Rethinking Climate Scenarios 45:59 Positive Tipping Points 52:24 Geoengineering The Planet 01:05:14 Outro

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  Episode #275

  The Scandal at The Heart of The Energy Transition | Ep275: Jan Rosenow

  Sep 23, 20261h 5m

  Around two-thirds of the energy we put into today’s energy system ends up as rejected heat. So are we measuring the energy transition all wrong? Professor Jan Rosenow joins Michael Liebreich to unpack the “primary energy fallacy”: why focusing on the energy going into the system can obscure the useful energy we actually get out. They explore why electrification can dramatically reduce energy demand, and what genuine systems thinking means for efficiency, waste heat and infrastructure. They also examine hydrogen versus electrification, including Jan’s review of more than 60 independent studies on hydrogen for heating, why hydrogen continues to attract support despite its disadvantages in many end uses, and how incumbent industries resist technological change. Key topics discussed: The primary energy fallacy  Why useful energy matters The hidden inefficiency of fossil fuels Electrification and shrinking energy demand Rethinking energy efficiency through systems thinking Making better use of waste heat Why energy statistics can misrepresent the transition Hydrogen vs electrification for heating Why incumbent technologies resist change Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Jan Rosenow’s bio: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/find-an-expert/professor-jan-rosenow   Jan Rosenow’s Substack: https://janrosenow.substack.com/   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Sankey Diagram: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2026-08/2024-us-energy-flowchart-homepage.jpg   Michael Liebreich’s “The Five Superheroes Of The Transition” article: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/   Our World In Data Energy Consumption Chart: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption   Innovation and Its Enemies: Why People Resist New Technologies book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovation-Its-Enemies-People-Technologies/dp/019046703   Jonathan Maxwell on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcN3Bqq8ehA   Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w Jorgo Chatzimarkakis on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NCiEhprSOc   Subscribe to Cleaning Up’s newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/   Acronyms: LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas IEA: International Energy Agency,  EIA: Energy Information Administration. IIASA: International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 07:34 Primary Energy Fallacy 15:14 Fossil Fuel Inefficiency 24:44 Rethinking Energy Efficiency 27:05 Using Waste Heat 35:00 Misleading Energy Statistics 43:12 Hydrogen vs Electrification 49:48 Resisting Technological Change 58:00 Hydrogen Europe  01:03:14 Outro

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  Episode #274

  The Race Is On To Control AI | Episode 274: Afonso Salema & Sam Winter-Levy

  Sep 16, 20261h 6m

  More than 80% of the world’s advanced AI compute is concentrated in the US and China. For Europe and other middle powers, the question may no longer be how to win the AI race, but how to avoid becoming dangerously dependent on those that do. This week on Cleaning Up, James Cameron, Chair of Cleaning Up’s Editorial Council, takes over as guest host. He speaks with Sam Winter-Levy, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Afonso Salema, CEO of Exus Digital and founder of TerraByte Data Centers, about how compute is becoming a strategic resource. They explore how access to power and the grid is shaping where billions of dollars of AI infrastructure gets built, and how data centres could become a source of geopolitical leverage. They also discuss the security and public backlash facing this critical infrastructure, and whether AI’s enormous appetite for electricity could ultimately accelerate the clean energy transition. Topics covered in this episode: Compute as a strategic resource The US-China race for AI Why Europe is falling behind AI’s rapidly growing electricity demand Where the world builds data centres Protecting data centres from attack Weaponising chips and AI access The political backlash against data centres Can AI accelerate clean energy? Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Afonso Salema’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afonso-salema-336320/ Sam Winter-Levy’s bio: https://carnegieendowment.org/people/sam-winter-levy James Cameron’s bio: https://www.james-cameron.co.uk/bio Cleaning Up 235. Inside Start Campus, Europe’s largest data centre: https://youtu.be/juAyLAUmU3w James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7GKiW5E4k James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPPjAbSxl5c Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ The Stanford 2026 AI index: https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report Edelman Trust in AI poll: https://www.edelman.com/trust/2025/trust-barometer/report-tech-sector Acronyms: AWS: Amazon Web Services NIMBY: "Not In My Back Yard" Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 02:02 AI, security, geopolitics 05:01 Compute as power 11:34 The global AI race 14:07 Building data centres 18:02 Defending critical infrastructure 23:53 Who pays for security? 29:24 Designing for resilience 32:48 Weaponising AI access 40:02 Data centre backlash 49:56 The balance of power 54:09 Can Europe catch up? 59:43 AI and clean energy 01:04:01 Outro

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  Episode #273

  Mexico Wants To Build An $8,000 EV For Everyone | Ep273: Roberto Capuano

  Sep 9, 202657 min

  Can Mexico build an electric car for $8,000, and use it to create an entirely new domestic industry? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Mexico City to sit down with Roberto Capuano, director of the Olinia Project, and discuss the state-backed effort to develop a new generation of affordable electric mini-vehicles.  Roberto explains why Olinia is designing small EVs specifically around the needs of Mexican cities, how partnerships with Chinese suppliers could accelerate technology transfer, and why price rather than subsidies could ultimately drive EV adoption. They also discuss Mexico's ambitions beyond its domestic market, with potential demand across Latin America and even East Africa. Topics discussed in this episode: Why Mexico wants its own carmaker Electrifying Mexico City's public transport The rise of electric mini-cars Building an $8,000 Mexican EV Why Olinia is partnering with China The state's role in carmaking Building a Latin American EV market Can Olinia deliver by 2027?  Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Roberto Capuano’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberto-capuano/   Olinia Project: https://www.olinia.auto/   Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/   OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer BRT: Bus Rapid Transit  R&D: Research & Development ICE: Internal Combustion Engine  Chapters: 00:00 Intro  02:15 Electrifying Mexico City  10:33 Olinia's Origins  11:58 Mini Electric Cars  18:48 Made in Mexico  21:25 State-Led Industry  30:33 Chinese Supply Chains  36:31 The $8,000 EV  40:01 Charging Infrastructure  42:54 Global Ambitions  45:43 Scaling Olinia  48:40 Software and Autonomy  50:01 Political Longevity  55:31 Outro   

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  Episode #272

  The Testbed for Asia's Clean-Tech Future | Ep272: Jaime Z. Urquijo

  Sep 2, 20261h 5m

  Can the Philippines become a testbed for Southeast Asia’s clean-tech future?  Kicking off Season 19 of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong meets Jaime Z. Urquijo, Urban Estates Group Head at Ayala Land, one of the Philippines is largest real estate and development companies.  Ayala Land is a subsidiary of the Ayala Corporation, which has been part of the Philippines' economic story for almost 200 years, and ACEN, its energy platform, has gone from a standing start in 2011 to more than 7GW of renewable capacity across Asia-Pacific.  Marie and Jaime explore how the Philippines can build cleaner energy, transport and cities from the start while its economy and population continue to grow. They discuss replacing coal with renewables, retiring coal plants early, building resilient cities and making growth less carbon-intensive. From batteries and rooftop solar to green steel and electric buses, they ask what it will take for the Philippines to leapfrog to a cleaner, more resilient economy.  Topics covered in this conversation: The Philippines' clean-energy challenge Can growth be decoupled from emissions? Making corporate sustainability profitable ACEN's renewable-energy transformation Southeast Asia's renewable-energy gold rush Can coal plants retire early? Building resilient cities for climate Electric buses and better transport Green steel and cleaner construction Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Jaime Urquijo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaime-urquijo-96526799/ Ayala Corporation: https://ayala.com/ Ayala Land: https://ayalaland.com/   ACEN: https://www.acenrenewables.com/about-us/ Monsoon Wind Project: https://www.monsoonwindasia.com/   Marie's past appearance on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/RE2ZeGd8aaI Acronyms: WBCSD: World Business Council for Sustainable Development BPO: Business Process Outsourcing SBTI: Science Based Targets Initiative. MDC: Makati Development Corporation.  EDC: The Energy Development Corporation  EPIRA: Electric Power Industry Reform Act FIT: Feed-In Tariff ETM: Energy Transition Mechanism BRT: Bus Rapid Transit System ICE: Internal Combustion Engine LGU: Local Government Unit  Chapters: 00:00: Intro 04:34: The Philippines 07:49: Ayala's history 10:42: Sustainability strategy 16:16: Net zero 27:32: Energy liberalisation 34:09: Regional challenges 36:27: Coal retirement 42:07: Resilient cities 47:45: Green steel 52:14: Green construction 54:55: Innovation tailwinds 58:27: Energy decentralisation 59:07: Future growth 01:01:43: Outro

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