Episode #27
EP27 - The Jones Act Was Built to Protect U.S. Shipping. U.S. Shipbuilding Still Collapsed
The Merchant Marine Act of 1920, commonly known as the Jones Act, requires goods moved between U.S. ports to travel on vessels that are U.S. owned, crewed, built, and flagged. Professor Rockford “Rocky” Weitz of The Fletcher School at Tufts University joins Kevin Carney and Emanuel Petrescu to explain the law’s origins, its national-security rationale, and the changes that have reshaped American shipping since its passage. The conversation traces the post-World War II selloff of Liberty ships, the rise of foreign shipbuilding in Japan, South Korea, and China, the end of U.S. shipbuilding subsidies, and the growing importance of rail, trucking, and containerization. It also examines higher shipping costs in Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico, Jones Act effects on port infrastructure, and the challenge of maintaining trained mariners and shipyard capacity. The discussion then turns to industrial policy, defense procurement, autonomous vessels, bipartisan maritime investment, and Weitz’s proposal to relax the U.S.-build requirement enough to encourage allied shipbuilding while preserving key domestic maritime capabilities. Full episode and transcript: https://curiouspundits.com/podcast/ep27-the-jones-act-was-built-to-protect-us-shipping-us-shipbuilding-still-collapsed Episode Show Notes Professor Rockford “Rocky” Weitz joins Emanuel Petrescu and Kevin Carney to examine why the Jones Act has not prevented the decline of U.S. commercial shipbuilding and what a modern maritime strategy might look like. Topics covered What the Jones Act is and why Congress passed it in 1920 The U.S.-owned, U.S.-crewed, U.S.-built, and U.S.-flagged requirements World War I and the original push for a stronger American merchant marine The post-World War II sale of Liberty ships and decline of the U.S. fleet Riverine shipping, offshore platforms, and other Jones Act vessels Why U.S. commercial shipbuilding fell behind China, Japan, and South Korea The end of U.S. shipbuilding subsidies in the 1980s National-security arguments for maintaining trained American mariners Higher shipping costs in Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico Railroads, interstate highways, trucking, and the rise of intermodal freight How the Jones Act can affect dredging and port infrastructure Protectionism, industrial policy, tariffs, and government rules in markets Current efforts to rebuild U.S. maritime and shipbuilding capacity Why stable long-term demand matters for private shipyard investment Defense procurement, industry consolidation, and declining competition Autonomous vessels, sea drones, and future naval capabilities How allied shipbuilding could become part of a revised Jones Act Episode Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to the Jones Act 01:17 Introducing Professor Rockford “Rocky” Weitz 02:38 The Jones Act’s original objectives 03:52 What the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 requires 05:24 World War II, Liberty ships, and the postwar selloff 06:47 Why U.S. shipbuilding declined 08:13 How quickly the postwar merchant fleet was sold 09:32 The long decline of American maritime capacity 10:33 National security, trained mariners, and riverine trade 12:18 U.S. shipbuilding compared with China, Japan, and South Korea 14:59 How domestic-port shipping rules work 16:39 Shipping costs in Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico 18:36 Rail, trucking, containerization, and intermodal freight 19:44 The landlocked “Port of Worcester” 20:58 The Jones Act and port dredging 24:13 Using AI to identify outdated regulations 26:54 Markets, government rules, and industrial policy 33:42 Reagan-era policy and the decline of shipbuilding subsidies 37:21 Current efforts to rebuild U.S. maritime industries 42:00 Why shipbuilding requires long-term investment certainty 43:22 The Ships Act and bipartisan interest in shipbuilding 47:03 Stable funding, defense authorization, and shipyard demand 49:36 Military readiness and lessons from Cold War shipbuilding 51:02 Autonomous vessels, sea drones, and future fleet design 54:31 Defense procurement consolidation and innovation 58:43 Economic complexity, competition, and specialized defense platforms 01:01:35 How Rocky Weitz would change the Jones Act 01:03:21 Where to find Rocky Weitz 01:04:29 Closing remarks Episode Links At 20:58 - Error on Kevin’s part. The Jones Act didn’t get in the way, the 1906 Dredging Law did. The 1906 Dredging Law That May Be Holding Back The U.S. Economy, Odd Lots, April 20, 2022 https://omny.fm/shows/odd-lots/the-1906-dredging-law-that-may-be-holding-back-the At 26:36 - Another error’s on Kevin’s part. The “mayor” who had an AI find “stupid” laws, was Kathy Hochul, the Governor of New York. And he listened to that episode literally some time in the past 20 days, as it was published 20 days from when I (Kevin) am typing this. NY Governor Kathy Hochul on Her One Year Data Center Moratorium Odd Lots, July 15, 2026 https://omny.fm/shows/odd-lots/ny-governor-kathy-hochul-on-her-one-year-data-center-moratorium At 42:36 - Curious Pundits Podcast Episode 20: Oil Shocks and the Energy Tradeoff: Efficiency vs Resiliency https://curiouspundits.com/podcast/ep-20-oil-shocks-and-the-energy-tradeoff-efficiency-vs-resiliency At 54:31 - This Is Palantir’s Vision for Changing How the US Does Defense Spending Odd Lots, February 5, 2025 https://omny.fm/shows/odd-lots/this-is-palantirs-vision-for-changing-how-the-us-d?in_playlist=podcast At 1:03:51 - The Faculty Page for Rockford Weitz at Tufts University https://fletcher.tufts.edu/academics/faculty/rockford-weitz Episode Website URL https://curiouspundits.com/podcast/ep27-the-jones-act-was-built-to-protect-us-shipping-us-shipbuilding-still-collapsed About the Podcast Hosted by Kevin Carney and Emanuel Petrescu, two curious minds exploring ideas, culture, and everything in between. Curious Pundits is a conversational podcast where each episode starts with a topic that caught our attention and unfolds into thoughtful, unscripted discussion. We follow curiosity wherever it leads, across disciplines, opinions, and perspectives, without pretending to have all the answers. Their main ventures are https://1307.digital/ (Emanuel) and https://organicgrowth.biz/ (Kevin). 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