ESOP Radio

ESOP Radio is the official ESOP podcast—where real stories of growth, succession, and long-term wealth building are told. Hosted by Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke , and Ben Spadt, ESOP Investment Banking Consultant at Menke , the show features conversations with business owners, executives, and advisors who have navigated employee ownership as a strategic path forward. Episodes explore why companies choose ESOPs, how those decisions shape culture and continuity, and what it takes to build durable, long-term ownership structures. Alongside real-world stories, ESOP Radio examines the practical realities behind successful ESOPs, including fiduciary responsibilities, valuation, transaction structure, and regulatory considerations. ESOP Radio is educational in nature and designed for listeners seeking a clear, grounded understanding of employee ownership and long-term succession planning.

ESOP Radio is a arts podcast hosted by Menke, with 28 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80. PitchCentric scores this show on Booking Probability, Listen Score, and live audience signals refreshed every 24 hours.

Menke hosts ESOP Radio, a arts show with 28 episodes published.

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  Episode #28

  What Actually Makes an ESOP Work: Certified EO's Joe Belsterling on Building an Ownership Culture

  Aug 16, 202642 minS1

  Owning shares in a company and acting like an owner are two different things, and the gap between them is what separates ESOP companies that outperform from ones that quietly underperform. In this episode, Trevor Gilmore talks with Joe Belsterling, CEO of Certified EO, about what actually distinguishes a strong employee ownership culture from a company that simply has the legal paperwork in place. Belsterling explains what the Certified EO designation verifies, why not all forms of employee ownership carry the same value for employees, and why liquidity and percentage of ownership matter as much as the fact of ownership itself. He also walks through the three things he sees consistently in companies that get real performance benefits from employee ownership: whether employees understand how they affect the share price and how it affects them, whether leadership is transparent about company financials, and whether the organization is willing to work through the rough patches that come with building any culture. The conversation includes a real example from Legacy Utility Group, a California-based pipeline construction company that became employee owned for a minority stake in early 2025, where a simple change in driver behavior around idling equipment produced a measurable financial impact. Belsterling also discusses data on productivity and stock price performance in employee-owned companies, and describes the tools Certified EO has built — including an interactive wealth calculator and a job board dedicated to employee-owned employers — to help companies close the gap between having an ESOP and running one well. Listeners will come away with a practical framework for evaluating whether their own company's ownership culture is doing the work it's capable of, or just sitting on the books. Key Takeaways Certified EO's designation verifies that a company meets specific thresholds around the percentage of employee ownership, vesting, and repurchase rights, rather than simply allowing a company to claim it is employee owned. Not all forms of employee ownership carry equal value for employees; share liquidity and the percentage of the company actually owned by employees are major factors in how meaningful that ownership is. ESOP structures differ fundamentally from venture-backed startup equity because ESOPs are built around long-term, compounding wealth building rather than a high-risk, high-reward bet on a single exit. The most consistent driver of outperformance in employee-owned companies is participative management — employees who understand what it means to act and think like an owner, not just the existence of a stock account. A strong ownership culture depends on employees understanding how their actions affect the company's share price and how that share price affects them personally. Financial transparency, even at a simplified level, is necessary for employees to feel and act like real owners; withholding basic information about company performance undermines the culture an ESOP is meant to build. Building an ownership culture is not a one-time event tied to the ESOP transaction; it involves periods of adjustment, and companies should expect and work through those bumps rather than treating early friction as failure. Certified EO has expanded from certification into education and tools — including customized content, an interactive wealth calculator, an engagement measurement toolkit, and a job board for employee-owned companies — to help member companies build and sustain that culture over time. Send us Fan Mail Learn more: ESOP Radio: https://www.menke.com/esop-radio/ ESOP Boot Camp: https://www.menke.com/esop-boot-camp/ Confidential feasibility review: https://www.menke.com

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  Episode #27

  Grading Our 2026 ESOP Predictions: Bank Lending, Private Equity Exits, and What Comes Next

  Aug 2, 202621 minS1

  Six months into 2026, Trevor Gilmore and Ben Spadt sit down together in person to revisit the ten ESOP market predictions they made back in January and check them against what's actually happened in the field. The result is a candid, prediction-by-prediction accounting of where the ESOP market stands at midyear — including which forecasts held up, which are still developing, and what the hosts are watching for the rest of 2026. The conversation covers a competitive bank lending environment for ESOP formations, growing interest from private-equity-owned companies (particularly software firms) looking at ESOPs as an offload strategy, and a specific example of a Washington, D.C.-area boat manufacturer with the Navy as a major client that was sold by its private equity owner to an ESOP as an alternative to a continuation fund. The hosts also discuss the first cannabis company ESOP transaction of 2026 (completed by another advisory firm, in Pennsylvania), a Central Valley Business Times study on job seekers — particularly in construction — actively seeking out employee-owned employers, and how AI is being used by prospects and advisors as a fact-checking and research tool rather than a replacement for relationship-driven deal work. The episode closes with Ben's five predictions for the remainder of 2026, including possible legislative movement on ESOP contribution limits and lending restrictions, continued growth of the 100% S-corp ESOP holding company model, and the potential for longer-term, higher-leverage ESOP financing structures. Listeners will come away with a grounded, midyear read on where ESOP lending, legislation, private equity dynamics, and workforce demand are actually headed — not where they were predicted to go in theory. Key Takeaways Bank lending for ESOP formations has become more competitive in 2026, with top-five and top-six national banks as well as numerous regional banks actively pursuing ESOP-related deals. Private-equity-owned companies, especially in software, are increasingly exploring ESOP sales as an alternative to a traditional exit or a continuation fund, partly driven by aging "zombie fund" portfolios that need liquidity. A Washington, D.C.-area boat manufacturer with the U.S. Navy as a major client was sold by its private equity owner to an ESOP and has performed well since the transition. Gen X business owners are increasingly using partial ESOP transactions to gain liquidity while keeping their companies independent, a trend the hosts expect to accelerate through 2027. The first cannabis company ESOP of 2026 has closed, in Pennsylvania, though valuation remains a complicating factor for cannabis deals generally. A Central Valley Business Times study found that job seekers, particularly in construction, are actively seeking out ESOP-owned employers, and platforms like Certified EO now list ESOP job openings. AI is increasingly used by prospects and their advisors to validate information during ESOP conversations in real time, but the hosts do not see it replacing the relationship-driven, judgment-heavy work of structuring and closing ESOP transactions. Architecture, construction, and engineering companies continue to lead ESOP adoption by industry, though the hosts note deals are increasingly coming from less traditional sectors as well. Building an ownership-oriented culture before implementing an ESOP is becoming more common, with frameworks like EOS (the Entrepreneurial Operating System) cited as one way companies prepare. Ben's outlook for the rest of 2026 includes possible legislative changes to ESOP contribution limits and lending rules, continued growth of the tax-advantaged S-corp ESOP holding company model, and potential innovation in longer-term ESOP financing structures. Send us Fan Mail Learn more: ESOP Radio: https://www.menke.com/esop-radio/ ESOP Boot Camp: https://www.menke.com/esop-boot-camp/ Confidential feasibility review: https://www.menke.com

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  Episode #26

  40 Years of Employee Ownership: How CCI Systems Grew from a 1985 ESOP to a National Infrastructure Company

  Jul 20, 202638 minS1

  What does an ESOP look like after 40 years? CCI Systems became employee owned in 1985, when its founders sold 75% of the company into an ESOP at $24 per share. Since then, the network infrastructure firm has grown to more than 1,000 employees, expanded from cable construction into fiber, wireless, energy, and data center work, and reports average share value growth of roughly 10% per year over four decades. This episode looks at how that happened. Current CEO Troy Nuckles and recently retired CEO John Jamar explain how the founders' succession decision became a durable ownership structure, why the ESOP's long time horizon lets leadership make investments that would be difficult under public or private equity ownership, and how the company built an intentional ownership culture — from written values and hiring practices to sharing financial results with employees multiple times per quarter. The conversation also covers CCI's acquisition strategy of buying "market adjacencies," including two recent deals: Total Site Services, a wireless tower and small cell services firm, and Latent Surveys, a Salt Lake City land surveying company CCI plans to expand nationally. Nuckles explains why an ESOP-owned buyer is often an attractive landing place for founders who care about what happens to their employees after a sale. Listeners will come away with a practical picture of how an ESOP can support both long-term wealth building for employees and sustained growth for the business — and where a CEO should start if they want to build an ownership culture of their own. Key Takeaways CCI Systems' founders used an ESOP in 1985 as a succession tool: they sold their asset-based businesses to outside buyers but placed 75% of their services business into an ESOP at $24 per share to preserve it as their legacy. CCI reports its share value has grown an average of roughly 10% per year since 1985, while the company has grown to more than 1,000 employees. Troy Nuckles, who came from public and private-equity-backed companies, argues the ESOP's primary advantage is decision-making freedom: leadership can make investments today that won't show tangible results for two to four years without the penalties those decisions carry in other ownership structures. Ownership culture at CCI is intentional, not accidental: values were drafted by a group of more than 20 employees, translated into specific habits, embedded in recruiting questions, and reinforced by opening every meeting with an element of the defined culture. CCI's ESOP communications committee focuses on two things — explaining how the ESOP builds company value, and showing each employee how their specific role contributes to it. The company shares financial results with employees multiple times per quarter, always framed in terms of what the results mean to them as employee owners. CCI grows through "market adjacency" acquisitions — services next to what it already does — including recent purchases of Total Site Services (wireless tower and small cell services) and Latent Surveys (land surveying), with a strategy of taking strong regional firms national. For selling owners, an ESOP-owned acquirer offers something a private equity or strategic buyer often can't: confidence that employees will receive ownership and be taken care of after the deal. Send us Fan Mail Learn more: ESOP Radio: https://www.menke.com/esop-radio/ ESOP Boot Camp: https://www.menke.com/esop-boot-camp/ Confidential feasibility review: https://www.menke.com

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  Episode #25

  ESOP Legislation, Lending, and the 2026 Outlook: A Mid-Year Update

  Jul 5, 202629 minS1

  Business owners considering an ESOP are operating in a noticeably different environment than they were a year ago. This episode covers three developments reshaping the ESOP landscape in 2026: a major shift in Department of Labor enforcement, several bills moving through Congress that address long-standing valuation and financing gaps, and new flexibility from banks that are lending to ESOP transactions. The hosts open with the Department of Labor's decision in January 2026 to remove ESOPs entirely from its national enforcement priority list, a change from years of heightened scrutiny to what they describe as a more principles-based oversight approach. They then walk through several bills working their way through Congress, including one that would define "adequate consideration" for closely held stock valuation, one that would remove ESOP contributions from standard defined contribution plan testing limits, and a proposed federal loan guarantee facility at the Commerce Department intended to close a persistent ESOP financing gap. On the lending side, the hosts discuss how banks are structuring ESOP loans more flexibly than in the past, using tiered commitments (sometimes called accordion structures) that release additional funding as a company meets its covenants, rather than requiring a company to renegotiate an entirely new loan. They also cover current interest rate ranges, the continued role of seller notes, and where valuation expectations stand for the second half of 2026. Listeners will come away with a clearer picture of the regulatory and financing environment ESOPs are operating in this year, along with specific caution points around valuation expectations before pursuing a transaction. Key Takeaways The Department of Labor removed ESOPs from its national enforcement priority list in January 2026, signaling a shift toward more predictable, principles-based oversight rather than heightened audit and litigation activity. The Retire Through Ownership Act (S. 2403 / H.R. 5169) would establish a clearer legal definition of "adequate consideration" for valuing closely held ESOP stock, letting fiduciaries rely in good faith on independent appraisals that follow IRS Revenue Ruling 59-60; the Senate passed it by unanimous consent in October 2025, and it is awaiting a full House vote. A separate bill, the Employee Ownership Fairness Act, would remove ESOP contributions from standard defined contribution plan limits (415 and 404 testing), reducing the risk of excess contribution refunds or excise taxes. A proposed federal loan guarantee facility, the American Ownership and Resilience Act (H.R. 3248 / S. 1645), still active in committee, would establish a zero-subsidy investment facility at the Commerce Department, similar in concept to FHA or SBA-backed lending, to help close the financing gap that has historically limited ESOP deal sizes. Banks are increasingly using tiered, covenant-based lending structures that allow additional funding to be released over time without requiring a new loan process, giving sellers more flexibility than a single fixed loan amount. Seller notes remain a common part of ESOP financing structures, typically paired with a senior bank loan, and delayed-draw note structures are now part of the available financing toolkit. Current ESOP senior loan rates are running in the high-4% to low-6% range, based on SOFR plus roughly 1.5 to 2.5 percentage points depending on company size and cash flow. Business owners should understand the difference between valuation (a range) and price (what a transaction actually closes at), particularly since most ESOP transactions are priced on a single-digit EBITDA multiple rather than speculative growth assumptions. Send us Fan Mail Learn more: ESOP Radio: https://www.menke.com/esop-radio/ ESOP Boot Camp: https://www.menke.com/esop-boot-camp/ Confidential feasibility review: https://www.menke.com

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  Episode #24

  What to Do With Your ESOP Wealth: Diversification, Retirement Income, and Protecting What You've Built

  Jun 21, 202639 minS1

  Many ESOP participants spend years accumulating meaningful wealth inside a retirement plan they cannot easily access or sell. When the time comes to diversify or retire, the decisions made in that window can have significant tax consequences and long-term effects on retirement income. This episode examines what happens after the wealth is built — and how to approach it with clear eyes. Trevor Gilmore, CEO of Menke & Associates, is joined by Peter Newman, founder of Peak Wealth Planning, who has spent more than twelve years advising ESOP participants and business owners on retirement income forecasting, concentrated stock diversification, and intergenerational wealth planning. Newman brings a fiduciary perspective shaped by earlier work managing endowments within the University of Illinois system. The conversation covers the mechanics of ESOP diversification — including the age and tenure thresholds that determine when participants can begin selling shares, how payout schedules typically work, and what the tax consequences look like when a participant cashes out rather than rolling proceeds into an IRA. Newman also distinguishes between wealth creation, which for most ESOP participants happens largely on autopilot through company contributions, and wealth preservation, which requires more deliberate planning around income, expenses, insurance, and taxes. Listeners will come away with a clearer sense of what to do when an ESOP diversification window opens, what mistakes to avoid, and how to think about structuring retirement income across a multi-decade horizon. Key Takeaways Most ESOP participants become eligible to diversify up to 25% of accumulated shares at age 55 with at least ten years in the plan, and up to an additional 25% at age 60 — understanding this timeline matters for planning purposes. Cashing out a diversification distribution rather than rolling it into an IRA can trigger a 10% early withdrawal penalty before age 59½ and push a participant into a significantly higher tax bracket in that year. ESOP accounts are typically valued once per year, with share prices communicated to participants in summer and diversification elections occurring on an annual cycle — participants who miss the window must wait until the following year. After a participant declares retirement, there can be a gap of several months — sometimes up to 16 months depending on plan calendar — before the first distribution check arrives; having separate liquid savings helps bridge that gap. Peter Newman's rule of thumb: concentration builds wealth, diversification protects it. If an ESOP balance represents more than half of a participant's total net worth, the case for diversifying when eligible becomes stronger. The 4% withdrawal rule — roughly $40,000 in annual income for every $1 million saved — provides a useful planning benchmark for whether accumulated balances are sufficient to sustain retirement income without depleting the principal. Wealth preservation involves more than investment allocation: it includes liability insurance coverage, tax planning in retirement, and coordinating withdrawals so that taxes are withheld properly once paycheck withholding ends. Starting retirement income forecasting 10 to 15 years before a planned retirement date allows time to adjust savings rates or revise assumptions; waiting until two years out leaves little room to course-correct. Peter Newman, CFA is a financial advisor and the founder of Peak Wealth Planning. He works with individuals who have built their wealth through stock plan participation and business ownership –– guiding them through retirement income planning, management of concentrated stock and equity compensation, and multi-generational wealth transfer. His strength is turning complex financial decisions into practical strategies tied to each client’s long-term goals. He works closely with clients’ CPAs to build proactive tax planning into the picture. Before founding Peak Wealth, Peter managed the $700 million University of Illinois endowment, overseeing institutional investment strategy and portfolio management. He brings that same disciplined, fiduciary perspective to the families he serves today. Peak Wealth Planning website Youtube - Subscribe to Peak Wealth Send us Fan Mail Learn more: ESOP Radio: https://www.menke.com/esop-radio/ ESOP Boot Camp: https://www.menke.com/esop-boot-camp/ Confidential feasibility review: https://www.menke.com

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