Episode #417
Fueling Sustainable Change—Listen to Your Body and Lead by Example (with Jason Whittrock)
In this episode Andrea Samadi revisits a 2020 conversation with trainer Jason Wittrock, exploring how movement, recovery, and nutrition interact to support learning, adaptation, and performance. They discuss sustainable eating strategies—like focusing on food quality, experimenting to find what works for you, and using tracking as a short-term tool rather than a lifetime rule. The episode also highlights the power of example: staying consistent with healthy habits even when others resist, trusting the process, and choosing one manageable change to practice until it becomes part of your life. Welcome back to the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we bridge neuroscience, social and emotional learning, and human performance so we can create measurable improvements in our well-being, achievement, leadership, productivity, and results. I’m Andrea Samadi, and if you’ve been following along through Season 16, you’ll know that we have been building what I call The Brain’s Operating System for Human Performance—a neuroscience-based framework designed to help us understand how the different systems of the brain and body work together to influence how we learn, adapt, connect, lead, and ultimately perform. Today, we are completing Phase 3: Movement, Learning, and Cognition, where we have been following this central pathway: Movement creates the stimulus. Recovery allows the brain and body to respond. Adaptation is the change that follows. And improved performance is the outcome we are working toward. Throughout this phase, we have explored how movement activates the brain, how exercise primes attention and learning, and how recovery determines our readiness to perform. We have also examined how sleep, cardiovascular fitness, strength, nutrition, and metabolic health influence the way the brain and body adapt over time. For this final episode of Phase 3, we are returning to a conversation that played an important role in my own health journey. Today, we revisit my interview with personal trainer and fitness model Jason Wittrock, who first appeared on this podcast in Episode 94 [i] in November 2020. On this episode, we explore: ✔ Why food quality can matter more than rigidly chasing numbers ✔ How hunger and fullness provide useful information ✔ Why tracking should teach us—not control us ✔ How experimentation builds body awareness ✔ Why consistency matters more than short-term perfection ✔ How leading by example can influence others—even when we cannot see it yet I first discovered Jason in late 2016 or early 2017, when I was standing at a crossroads with my health. I knew I needed to make some changes, but I didn’t yet know what those changes should look like. I had heard people talking about keto coffee and the potential benefits of a ketogenic diet, including increased energy, greater mental clarity, and weight loss. So, like many people searching for answers, I went to YouTube and typed in, “How do you make keto coffee?” One of Jason Wittrock’s [ii] videos appeared. That video became the beginning of a much larger journey for me—one that changed the way I thought about nutrition, energy, exercise, and metabolic health. What made Jason stand out wasn’t only the information he shared. It was the intention behind it. He would speak quickly and enthusiastically about what he was doing, what he was eating, and why—and then he would say something simple: “Hey, I’m just trying to help.” And I believed him. Jason also emphasized something that has remained with me ever since: it isn’t enough to follow a diet or health plan for 30 or 45 days. If we want lasting results, the changes must become part of the way we live. That message stuck—all these years later. I began making keto coffee, experimenting with new foods, learning what macronutrients were, and discovering what worked best for me. I began paying much closer attention to how nutrition affected my energy, mental clarity, and physical performance. I still make the occasional keto coffee and have MCT Oil next to the blender, and Kerrygold Pure Irish Butter in the fridge. ‘ What started with one YouTube video became part of a much broader investigation into the habits that support brain health, my metabolic health, as well as longevity. And this is exactly why Jason’s work belongs at the conclusion of Phase 3. Movement is a powerful signal—but the body does not adapt to movement in isolation. Adaptation is also shaped by how we fuel the body, regulate blood sugar, support metabolic flexibility, sleep, recover, and repeat our habits consistently over time. Exercise, nutrition, sleep, fasting, and recovery are not completely separate health strategies. They are interacting signals that tell the brain and body how to respond, rebuild, and perform. As we revisit this interview, you’ll hear some of my questions from the earlier years of my health journey. Science continues to evolve, and so have many of my habits and perspectives. But the central lesson remains highly relevant: Lasting change rarely begins with having every answer. Sometimes, it begins with one trusted voice, one new idea, and the willingness to take the first step. Almost six years after recording this interview, I can say that I still trust Jason’s guidance on nutrition. As I reviewed these clips, they almost brought tears to my eyes because I could see how accurately his words predicted what would unfold years later. It was almost as if he were saying, “Keep going. Trust the process.” And when I look at the lasting changes in my own life and family, I can now see what he meant. CLIP 1: ESCAPING THE CAGE OF CONSTANT TRACKING In Clip 1, (click to watch VIDEO clip) Jason challenges the idea that we need a perfect calorie target or precise macronutrient formula to improve our health. He explains that nutritional needs vary from one person to another—and even from one day to the next. This makes it difficult for an online calculator or outside expert to determine exactly what an individual body needs at every moment. From Jason’s perspective, one potential benefit of a well-formulated ketogenic diet is that it may help some people experience steadier energy, fewer cravings, and greater awareness of their natural hunger and fullness cues. Instead of constantly counting calories or tracking every gram of protein, fat, and carbohydrate, he encourages people to begin with the quality of the foods they eat and then observe how their bodies respond. Jason uses the image of a lion in the wild compared with a lion in a cage. The lion in the wild responds naturally to hunger and fullness. The lion in the cage represents someone constrained by spreadsheets, calorie targets, and rigid food rules. His central message is that nutrition should be sustainable enough to support your life—not so complicated that tracking the plan becomes your life. KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM CLIP 1 There is no single perfect formula for everyone. Calorie and macronutrient recommendations are estimates. Individual needs vary according to activity, sleep, stress, health, body composition, personal goals, and many other factors. When I first watched one of Jason’s “What I Eat in a Day” videos, it gave me a starting point. At that time, I didn’t really know what to prepare for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I ate healthy foods, rarely ate sugar, but knew I could improve with what I was using as energy. Jason’s meals gave me a basic framework. From there, I adjusted the foods and portions to make his approach work for me. If you want to see a more recent video of what he eats in a day, you can visit his Instagram [iii] page. Food quality matters. Jason recommends beginning with nutrient-dense, minimally processed foods rather than focusing exclusively on calories or macronutrient percentages. This was a huge paradigm shift for me. At the time, I could tell you the calorie count of almost any food. But after listening to Jason, I stopped thinking only about calories in and calories burned. Instead, I began noticing which foods left me feeling satisfied, energized, and full. Hunger and fullness provide useful information. Learning to recognize physical hunger, satisfaction after eating, cravings, changes in energy, and fullness can help us understand how different foods affect us. This was another eye-opener for me. I began experimenting with intermittent fasting and eating within a defined window. This practice helped me learn what hunger actually felt like without immediately becoming afraid of it. With time, my body became more accustomed to recognizing hunger cues and waiting until it was time to eat. This became useful when I was traveling. If I couldn’t find a restaurant or food choice that worked for me, I learned that I could wait rather than eat something simply because I was uncomfortable with feeling hungry. I also learned that drinking water could sometimes help that hunger feeling to feeling pass. Tracking can be helpful—but it is only a tool. Tracking may help someone understand portions, macronutrients, (how much protein, carbs or fats are in a certain food) or eating patterns. But when tracking becomes rigid, stressful, or obsessive, it can make a healthy lifestyle more difficult to sustain. I used an app to track my carbohydrates, proteins, and fats during the first few months. Once I understood what worked for me and found meals I could repeat, I no longer needed the tracker. The tracking served its purpose: it taught me something. But it didn’t need to control me indefinitely. Experimentation builds self-awareness. Instead of blindly following someone else’s formula, Jason encourages us to test different foods and routines while paying attention to our energy, appetite, mood, sleep, and performance. I liked Jason’s food choices, so I used many of his meals as a starting point and adjusted the portions for my own body and needs. Sustainability (the long-term vision) matters more than short-term perfection. The most effective nutritional approach is one that supports your health while remaining realistic enough to continue over time. I had always believed that I ate healthy foods, but I didn’t fully understand how to build meals that worked for me until I began following Jason’s work. His guidance helped me move from generally trying to “eat healthy” to understanding how specific choices affected my energy, focus, and performance. Now I know what breakfast foods work best for me when I have a long day, without access to food, and what refuels me after a long hike, as well as what helps me to wind down before sleep. The goal is greater freedom—not another cage. Jason’s lion metaphor reminds us that a nutrition plan should help us reconnect with our bodies rather than make us feel controlled by numbers, rules, and spreadsheets. Once we learn what works for us, it becomes easier to stay on track without constantly measuring everything. I still eat many of the same foods for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. My youngest daughter has now discovered the meals that work best for her and has become an excellent cook who prepares her own food every week. There is still one person in our house who insists he will never change the way he eats. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he might try the carrots and celery I have ready to go--someday. HOW CAN WE PUT THE IDEAS FROM CLIP 1 INTO PRACTICE? First, begin by improving the quality of one meal each day. Build it around minimally processed foods that include some protein, healthy fat, fiber, and vegetables that are appropriate for your chosen nutritional approach. Like me, once you connect with someone you trust, you can learn from them. Second, pause before eating and ask yourself: Am I physically hungry, or am I responding to stress, habit, boredom, or simply the availability of food? This concept is still important for me. I sometimes reach for a snack when I’m stressed or rushing. In those moments, I can pause and consider whether a glass of water—or a few quiet minutes—would meet the real need more effectively. Third, slow down while eating. Give your brain and body enough time to recognize satisfaction. Halfway through the meal, pause and notice whether you are still hungry, comfortably satisfied, or already full. Bob Proctor, who has appeared often throughout this podcast, used to say often: “Do you taste your food?” Are you eating slowly and mindfully enough to notice how your food actually tastes? I noticed something interesting recently while eating at a steak restaurant. I had removed alcohol from my diet at the beginning of August after realizing that I didn’t really enjoy it. After the first month, I began noticing that I could taste food differently. At this restaurant, I experienced the flavor of shrimp cocktail in an entirely new way. That is a story for another episode, but it reminded me that when we slow down and pay attention, we may notice something we have missed before. Fourth, observe how different meals affect you. Notice your energy, cravings, mood, focus, digestion, exercise performance, and hunger during the hours that follow. Fifth, experiment with one change at a time. If you change everything at the same time, it becomes hard to identify which food or habit produced the result. Sixth, use numbers selectively. Tracking your food for a short period can provide useful information, but it does not need to become a permanent requirement. Let the data teach you rather than control you. Seventh, remember that ketosis (or intermittent fasting) is not the only path to understanding your appetite or metabolic health. Some people feel better following a ketogenic approach, while others do well with a balanced diet that includes high-quality carbohydrates. The important question is whether the approach is safe, nourishing, sustainable, and effective for you. Finally, if you take medication or have diabetes or concerns involving your kidneys, liver, gallbladder, pancreas, cardiovascular health, or eating behaviors, speak with a qualified healthcare professional before beginning a ketogenic diet, intermittent fasting, or another significant dietary change. The goal is not to copy someone else’s perfect formula. The goal is to gather information, listen carefully to your body, and gradually uncover the nutritional approach that helps you feel and perform at your best. CLIP 2: PUSHING THROUGH THE BACKLASH In Clip 2, (click the link to watch the video clip) Jason and I discuss one of the most difficult parts of creating a healthy lifestyle: continuing to make intentional choices when the people around us do not understand or support what we are doing. I described the challenge of teaching my daughters healthy eating habits while they watched their friends eat fast food and sugary foods. As a parent, it can feel as though you are the “bad guy” when you establish boundaries or offer healthier choices that your children do not yet appreciate. Jason explained that these lessons might not make sense to them when they are young, because eating well did not feel necessary to them at that stage of their lives. They really want to fit in. But that did not mean they weren’t paying attention. His message was to keep leading by example. The people around us may resist our choices, criticize us, or even think we are being extreme—but they are still watching. When improving their own health eventually becomes important or necessary, they may remember the habits, choices, and lessons they witnessed. The main idea is simple but powerful: Push through the immediate backlash, because the example you set today may become someone else’s roadmap tomorrow. KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM CLIP 2 People may resist what they do not yet need—or what they did not choose. Health advice can seem unnecessary to someone who has not experienced a problem, consequence, or don’t have a personal desire to change. We each need to arrive at the point where we want the change for ourselves. Resistance does not mean your example is being ignored. People may question your choices while quietly observing your consistency, discipline, and results. When Jason predicted that I would notice the effects of my healthy eating choices years later, I had no idea how accurate he would be. Years after this interview, my youngest daughter now meal-preps. She is a wonderful cook, and I can learn from the foods she prepares each week. My oldest daughter (also meal preps) and thanked me for not making junk food and fast food a normal part of their childhood. They definitely ate some of these foods when they grew older, but they were grateful that those foods had not formed the foundation of what they ate when they were young. I’ll never forget when she said “Hey Mom, thanks for making us eat healthy when we were little.” I remember being shocked—and grateful—that I had stayed true to what I believed was right. At the time, I sometimes wondered whether I was depriving them of experiences their friends enjoyed. People thought I was from a different planet when I told them I had never bought fast food for the kids. Years later, I could see that my example had made an impact, even when there was little evidence of it in the moment in those early years. Timing matters. We cannot force another person to change before they are ready. But we can make sure that helpful information and a positive example are available when their moment arrives. Leading by example can be more powerful than lecturing. Consistently demonstrating healthy habits gives other people a practical model they can use later. Children absorb more than they appear to. Even when children complain about boundaries we give them, or reject healthy choices, they are still learning what their family values and what healthy behavior looks like. Backlash is not necessarily evidence that you are doing something wrong. Making a change can disrupt established family or social patterns. Resistance may simply reflect that the new behavior is unfamiliar or that it challenges what others are accustomed to doing. Consistency creates a future roadmap. When health becomes personally meaningful to the people watching us, they may remember the lessons they once resisted and finally know where to begin. HOW CAN WE IMPLEMENT THE IDEAS FROM CLIP 2? First, connect your choices to a clear personal reason. When you understand why you are exercising, eating differently, or protecting your health, other people’s opinions are less likely to pull you off course. For me, these habits help me think more clearly and feel better. They also allow me to take greater ownership of my energy and performance. Second, expect some resistance. When you change a familiar pattern, the people around you may feel confused, defensive, or inconvenienced. Prepare for that response without automatically interpreting it as failure. Third, be yourself instead of constantly trying to persuade other people. Continue preparing healthy meals, exercising, recovering, and making intentional choices. Allow others to observe your consistency, energy, and results. Fourth, share with others your results, but don’t expect them to join you. You can explain why a choice matters to you while giving other people the time and space to make their own decisions. Fifth, avoid turning food into a battle—especially with children. Provide healthy options, explain their purpose (food as fuel) and allow some flexibility. This took me some time. When our girls were teenagers, I eventually took them through a fast food window, but made them place their own order. Sixth, focus on what you can control. You cannot control whether someone follows your example. You can control the example you provide. Seventh, recognize small signs of influence. Someone asking a question, trying one healthy food, joining you for a walk, or remembering something you said may be enough evidence that the lesson has made an impact on them. Eating was one area where I eventually saw t
