
The Civitas Podcast
Episode 45: America in the Mystery of Christ and the Church — A Conversation with Reuben Slife
Peter Leithart and James Wood sit down with Reuben Slife for a conversation on David L. Schindler, American liberalism, religious freedom, Catholic social thought, the nature of rights, and America’s place within the mystery of Christ and the Church. Reuben Slife is an editor at New Polity and the editor of America in the Mystery of Christ and the Church , a new collection of David L. Schindler’s writings on America, accompanied by Slife’s substantial critical introduction. Slife is also preparing to begin doctoral studies at the Pontifical John Paul II Institute in Washington, D.C. In this conversation, Slife introduces Schindler as an underappreciated early postliberal thinker whose work challenged the assumptions of American Catholic neoconservatism. Drawing on Henri de Lubac, Hans Urs von Balthasar, Joseph Ratzinger, John Paul II, and the Communio tradition, Schindler argued that Christianity cannot simply supply moral values to an otherwise neutral political and economic order. The world and its institutions are already ordered toward God in Christ, and every social system therefore embodies an implicit theology and ontology. The conversation explores Schindler’s debates with Richard John Neuhaus, Michael Novak, George Weigel, and John Courtney Murray, especially over the neutrality of liberal institutions, the “naked public square,” religious freedom, and the First Amendment as an “article of peace.” Leithart, Wood, and Slife discuss whether rights arise from our separation from others or from our prior relation to them, how liberal individualism helps sustain the logic of abortion, and how sinful assumptions become embedded in laws, institutions, and cultural habits. The discussion also considers Schindler’s account of cosmic liturgy: creation comes from God and is ordered toward its return to God in praise. From Mother Teresa’s contemplative service to the Eucharistic life of the Church, Christian action is not secular work with religion added on top, but participation in the world’s intrinsic glorification of God. The episode concludes by asking how Americans can receive the genuine goods of their national inheritance—freedom, opportunity, invention, religious liberty, and social peace—while allowing those goods to be purified and more deeply situated within Christ and the communion of the Church. To Give to Theopolis, click HERE . Get the Theopolis App, HERE . Use Code "theopolitan" to get your first month free! Sign up for In Medias Res, HERE .

