The Hard at Work Podcast

I’m Ellen Whitlock Baker, and I’m a 20 year survivor of many different workplaces, from the good to the bad to the ugly.I created the Hard at Work podcast to help you navigate…and maybe even update… the workplace, which wasn’t made for most of us. Hard at Work is the show for people who are ready to challenge workplace norms, advocate for themselves and others, and create a more equitable, healthier work culture.

The Hard at Work Podcast is a business podcast hosted by Ellen Whitlock Baker, with 53 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80.

Ellen Whitlock Baker hosts The Hard at Work Podcast, a business show with 53 episodes published.

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  Episode #52

  52. Micro-Yeses, Major Change: Neuroscience for Real Life with Britt Frank (encore)

  Sep 16, 202657 minS2

  Originally released in 2025, we're re-releasing one of the most popular Hard of Work episodes, with neuropsychotherapist Britt Frank - with video for the first time. What if your anxiety isn’t a flaw, but a built-in safety feature? In this episode of Hard at Work, Ellen sits down with Britt Frank—licensed neuropsychotherapist and author of The Science of Stuck and Align Your Mind —to explore the science of our brains, burnout, emotional patterns, and what it really takes to get unstuck. They dive into anxiety as a check engine light, how "micro yeses" create sustainable change, and why your brain resists even the things you want. Britt also shares why work should be human, not therapeutic, and how leaders can move from over-empathy to curiosity. If you're tired of blaming yourself for "not doing the thing," or if you lead people who are stressed, stuck, or burned out—this one’s for you. Chapters 00:00 – Intro & Guest Welcome: Britt Frank 01:00 – The "Real" Bio: Humanity Over Hype 02:00 – Aerial Hoops and Perimenopause 04:00 – What Is a Neuropsychotherapist? 06:00 – Your Brain Is Not Your Enemy 08:00 – Self-Talk and Stress Hormones 12:00 – Anxiety as a Signal, Not a Diagnosis 14:00 – Why We React Differently at Work 17:00 – Emotional Safety vs. Role Clarity 19:00 – Over-Empathy and Disempowerment 22:00 – What Managers Are (and Aren’t) Responsible For 25:00 – Fuzzy Roles Create Burnout 28:00 – Why the Workplace Still Hasn’t Changed 31:00 – Your Brain Doesn’t Want Change 33:00 – The Power of Micro Yeses 37:00 – Parts Work & Align Your Mind 41:00 – The Inner Critic as a Coach 44:00 – Getting Unstuck When You're Mid-Career 48:00 – Feelings vs. Emotions 50:00 – TED Talk, Cookies, and Closing Thoughts Keywords: Burnout, anxiety at work, workplace culture, neuropsychology, people pleasing, micro yeses, parts work, leadership coaching, emotional regulation, nervous system, trauma-informed leadership, women at work, stress at work, perimenopause and work, therapy-informed leadership Show Notes: Britt Frank’s Website Follow Britt Frank on Instagram

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  Episode #51

  51. Serious Fun: Why Playing at Work is the Key to Better Culture with Jyoti Jani

  Sep 9, 202651 minS2

  In this episode of Hard at Work , host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with organizational design consultant, KEXP DJ, and former Boeing flight test manager Jyoti Jani. Jyoti, founder of SPIL Play and Chief of Staff at Seattle Arts and Lectures, breaks down why modern corporate environments leave professionals feeling perpetually drained. Together, they explore how to challenge outdated workplace norms, deconstruct "capture culture," and introduce psychological safety into high-stakes leadership environments. The conversation dives deep into the neuroscience of play—redefining it not as a post-work luxury or child's activity, but as a crucial biological hack for learning, team performance, and creative flow. Jyoti shares a high-stakes story from her corporate engineering career at Boeing that exposed the disconnects in workplace hierarchies. She explains how tools like LEGO Serious Play and improv exercises lower the risk of experimentation, flatten organizational power dynamics, and build genuine trust among teams. Ellen and Jyoti also reframe organizational culture as a "shared nervous system" and examine how individual burnout directly impacts collective performance. They unpack the definition of power—moving energy per unit time—and offer actionable advice on how to build coalitions, set firm workplace boundaries, and retain human creativity in the age of AI. Tune in to discover practical tools for reshaping corporate systems from the inside out, complete with a live improv exercise mid-episode!

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  Episode #47

  50. How About Not Working 9 to 5? Lessons on creating healthy work cultures learned from 50 episodes

  Sep 2, 202625 minS2

  Episode 50 marks a major milestone for the Hard at Work podcast as host Ellen Whitlock Baker reflects on the critical takeaways from the show’s first year. Over the course of 50 episodes, the overarching lesson is clear: it is entirely possible to build high-performing, successful organizations without forcing employees to sacrifice their mental health, identity, or personal lives. Challenging rigid corporate conventions—such as mandatory 9-to-5 office presence, constant availability, and soul-crushing meeting loads—is not only necessary for employee well-being, but essential for modern organizational health. Achieving sustainable work requires addressing both systemic structures and personal mindsets. On an individual level, workers must engage in deep unlearning to confront internal "shadow voices"—engrained beliefs often inherited from childhood or societal pressure that equate exhaustion with self-worth and professional dedication. Simultaneously, organizations must acknowledge that standard workplace systems were historically designed around outdated demographics and profit or mission-driven model demands rather than human well-being. True progress occurs when leaders move away from viewing staff merely as resources to be consumed and instead build cultures rooted in mutual trust and psychological safety. Highlighting actionable solutions, the episode showcases real-world examples of human-centric cultures, such as Her First 100K , which thrives using policies like remote flexibility, comprehensive parental leave, and intentional leave options. Grounded in insights from previous guests like Lindsay Jackson, Erin Gallagher, Sarah Jaffe, Vu Le, Jodi-Ann Burey, and Minda Hart, this milestone episode serves as both a systemic critique and a hopeful roadmap. It reinforces that treating employees as humans first enables companies to remain profitable and effective while fostering healthier, more resilient teams.

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  The Hard at Work Podcast

  49. Building a Thriving People-Centric Workplace: In Practice with Karina Patel (part 2)

  Aug 26, 202636 min

  Can a high-trust, people-first company culture actually drive real-world productivity and business profitability? In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, host Ellen Whitlock Baker continues her discussion with Karina Patel, Chief Operating Officer at Her First 100K (HFK). Together, they dismantle the myth that sustainable workplace culture requires sacrificing performance, demonstrating how empathy and operational rigor can coexist to build a thriving, profitable business. Karina breaks down how HFK achieves high productivity without coercive tracking metrics. She explains the architecture of their annual roadmaps, clear KPIs, risk contingencies, and mid-quarter check-ins that align every team member and contractor with overarching business goals. Beyond traditional revenue targets, Karina shares how HFK tracks "health scores"—such as member health, retention rates, and community impact—to measure meaningful success across non-financial outcomes. Ellen and Karina also explore the intentional creation of a sustainable workplace. From normalizing vulnerability and unlearning the shame around workplace emotion to maintaining fluid, living employee handbooks, Karina offers a realistic roadmap for modern leadership. Discover how HFK integrates flexibility, clear scope-of-work reviews, and community-centric Slack channels (like "Nice Things" and "Squat Squad") to keep a remote team connected, engaged, and empowered. Show Notes Find Karina Patel on ⁠ ⁠LinkedIn⁠ ⁠ Learn more about ⁠ ⁠Her First 100K⁠ ⁠ Listen to the ⁠ ⁠Financial Feminist podcast⁠ ⁠ or get the NY Times Bestselling ⁠ ⁠book⁠ ⁠ Learn more about HFK's ⁠ ⁠100K Club⁠ ⁠ In This Episode, You'll Learn: Sustainable Productivity Without Surveillance: How to measure performance using clear roadmaps, KPIs, and risk contingencies instead of invasive productivity metrics. Building Psychological Safety & Empathy: Why normalizing vulnerability—including emotional expression and personal health needs—builds genuine trust and team cohesion. Non-Revenue Success Metrics: How to measure organizational impact through health scores, member retention, renewal rates, and user success milestones. Dynamic Scope-of-Work Management: Why job descriptions and service agreements must evolve annually to keep employees and contractors aligned with long-term goals. Living Handbooks & Policy Iteration: The importance of regularly updating company handbooks (e.g., AI policies) rather than treating workplace rules as fixed in stone. Connecting Behind-the-Scenes Work to Mission: How sharing community feedback (e.g., a "Nice Things" Slack channel) connects operational roles directly to client and audience outcomes.

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  Episode #48

  48. Building a Thriving People-Centric Workplace: In Practice with Karina Patel (part 1)

  Aug 19, 202633 minS2

  How do you turn a bold, feminist vision into a thriving, people-centered company that supports millions of women? In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, host Ellen Whitlock Baker sits down with Karina Patel, Chief Operating Officer at Her First 100K (HFK). Together, they explore what it looks like to dismantle toxic productivity, build intentional workplace systems, and re-architect traditional business norms to put human beings first. Karina shares her journey from corporate marketing and non-profit development to leading behind-the-scenes operations alongside HFK founder and CEO, Tori Dunlap. She offers a transparent look into how she balances visionary ambition with operational reality—proving that a company can be both wildly successful AND center the humanity of its employees. Ellen and Karina dive deep into HFK’s progressive HR policies, detailing the mechanics of truly supportive, human-first culture. From unlimited PTO (including menstrual and birthday leave) and four months of fully paid parental leave to remote work stipends and 26 company-wide paid days off each year, Karina breaks down why trusting employees with autonomy, setting firm communication boundaries, and unlearning the guilt of taking time off are essential for sustainable growth. If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s actually possible to build a workplace that centers the needs of your employees and still be a raging success, this is a must-listen. Turning Vision into Operations: How a COO translates visionary ideas into sustainable, executable operational strategies. Deprioritization as Burnout Prevention: Why learning to say "no" or "not right now" protects team bandwidth and combats toxic productivity. Rethinking Unlimited PTO: The nuance behind HFK’s unlimited leave policy, including menstrual leave, birthday leave, and reasonable coverage plans. Radical Company-Wide Breaks: How HFK implements a full week off every quarter plus holiday downtime—giving the team 26 paid, company-wide days off each year. Leadership Modeling & Communication Boundaries: Why leaders must model offline behavior, shut off notifications at 5:00 PM, and decouple urgency from importance. Unlearning Work Guilt: Overcoming the myth that everything hinges on your constant presence, and realizing that healthy organizations run smoothly when you step away.

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