
Episode #33
Developing a Marketing Mindset with Rita McGrath and Rory Sutherland
In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Rory Sutherland, vice chairman of the Ogilvy & Mather group of companies and expert in behavioral science and creativity. Their conversation took place in person at the Ogilvy offices in London. 0:00 The Marketing Mindset 0:29 Welcome & Introducing Rory Sutherland 1:10 Rory's Path into Advertising 2:11 Direct Marketing & A/B Testing Origins 3:01 Edwardian Era Newspaper Experiments 4:18 Testing Creative vs. Price 7:23 Discovering Behavioral Science 10:08 Marketing as a Way of Thinking 11:05 Uber & the Psychology of Innovation 12:23 Marketing & Innovation: Two Sides of a Coin 13:45 The Austrian School of Economics 14:46 The Swiss Watch Industry 17:21 Public vs. Private Advertising 18:50 What Are You Really Competing With? (Zippo) 22:16 Quarter-Inch Holes & Hidden Value 24:10 Trade-offs in Innovation 27:27 Austrian Economics & Value Creation 28:47 Baumol's Cost Disease & Non-Transactional Value 31:23 Universities as Luxury Goods 34:32 Ogilvy Adapting to Digital Change 37:48 The Marketing Mindset for All Businesses 40:02 Symbolism Matters: NASCAR Tickets & Corporate Perks 41:47 Risk & Reward in Organizations 42:54 The BT A/B Test: Channels Affect Purchases 47:33 Marketing Genius: James Watt's Horsepower 50:11 Marketing as Value Creation 51:18 The Citibank Demo: Finding the Real Sell 53:50 Kano Theory: Delighters & the DoubleTree Cookie 55:48 Reverse Benchmarking 58:05 The State of Advertising Today 59:27 Book Recommendations & Risk Aversion 1:03:45 Marketing Metrics & Digital Platforms Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts and Spotify . https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube . https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q Follow Rita on LinkedIn , Instagram , X and Blue Sky . https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram . https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack . https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com .






